Posted on 11/28/2017 12:09:34 PM PST by ebb tide
(I pinged you ebb because your accusations toward Prots are not always without basis. This is a good example of the cherry picking of verses that you claim take place, with me pointing out the inconsistantsies. And MHG, this is not just directed at you, so don’t think I’m singling you out)
**Did the believers in the House of Cornelius have the Holy Spirit in them BEFORE they were baptized? Yes.**
The urgency was there. Peter wasted no time in commanding that they be baptized. He even asked the church big shots back in Jerusalem: “what was I, that I could withstand God?”
Withstand God of what? His command to baptize for the remission of sins.
**Did Peter then give them the outward sign of their being members of the Ekklesia AFTER they were enjoined by the Holy Spirit? Yes.**
Outward sign of an inward cleansing......chapter and verse please.
I’ll toss this man-made conversion at you too: Raise your hand, and repeat after me......chapter and verse please.
**Were the 3000+ FIRST sealed by the Holy Spirit, then baptized? Yes.**
First? Prove it.
The Samaritans received the Holy Ghost, possibly a couple of days or more, after being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 8:12,16). That story alone, proves that it’s a lie to say that one automatically receives the Spirit when first believing.
The Ethiopian eunuch was taken down into the water, and baptized, with no mention of him receiving the Spirit first.
Paul, no dummy, after encountering certain disciples in Ephesus, judged that these people had not been taught to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, SINCE they believed. He asked them if they had received the Holy Ghost SINCE they believed. He rebaptized them in the name of the Lord Jesus, and then they were filled with the Holy Ghost.
This “don’t flinch a muscle to be saved” doctrine is not faith. Because it downplays the Lord’s own detailed conversion commandments, throws Peter under the bus whenever his words don’t meet the “easy believing” template. And shows the Lord to have been a failure at times at instructing his disciples.
Hebrews chapter 11 shows faith BY obedience. Even Abraham had done many faithful acts before being promised a third time that he would be the father to multitudes. How long did he count stars, as instructed by God, before being commended for his faith.
Folks are told to believe in Jesus, but if some of the words that he spoke that show people HOW to believe, are just a pitiful vanity (”outward sign of an inward cleansing”. That’s a lie from the pit of there ever was.), then it’s no wonder that other scriptures are also twisted to result in destruction.
Sola scripture? Where is the phrases “God the Son” or “God the Holy Ghost” in the scriptures? Where is, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, taught to be an outward sign of an inward cleansing? From the mouths of leading liars like John MacArthur and Chuck “the soul swindler” Swindoll. People like them have made a comfortable living cherry picking verses (oh, I’m sure they believe that they are interpreting scripture). I spent my first 28 yrs being told saving faith is without works. But not believing the Lord’s detailed conversion instructions, is not faith. The scriptures even point to the Lord’s witness of faith in people (”when he SAW their faith”).
And that doesn’t excuse the RC leaders that keep promoting prayer to images, and selling books of fairy tale doctrine.
(I could make a whip and overturn tables full of these liars books right now! Glory to God!)
That first line needs a little work.
?
Every former Catholic I’ve ever talked to about Catholicism says much the same thing about going to confession.
That's interesting. I was was always taught that it was Jesus Christ who was our final Judge, not you, nor Martin Luther.
Unfortunately your teachers didn't bother to tell you what Jesus said about Christians and the Christian condition...
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
justified
δικαιόω
dikaioō
dik-ah-yo'-o
From G1342; to render (that is, show or regard as) just or innocent: - free, justify (-ier), be righteous.
We Christians, the moment we become Christians are justified...Made just...Made righteous...
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
The moment we become Christians we have, right then, eternal life...Guaranteed...We do not have to wait for a 'final' judgement...We have been judged already and found to be 'just'...
I know you as a Catholic do not believe that...I suppose if you did, you'd have to take a very serious look at your religion and start making some uncomfortable choices...
You've already taken it upon yourself to judge your own salvation?
[31] And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:
[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.
[41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.
[46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
Matthew Chapter 25
Does the above sound like "by faith alone"?
It looks more like it's about "faith and works", doesn't it?
ET; is your name written; RIGHT NOW; in the Lamb's Book of Life?
Of course!
Who else is capable other than GOD?
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you-unless, of course, you fail the test?
Bogus claims, based on a terrible hermeneutic.
But thanks.
Jesus is not talking about the church age in Matthew 25.
This is what Jesus says about faith and works.
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered him,“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
St. Paul’s letter to the Ephesians: “6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”
Sounds more like works are the proof of faith, but faith is what saves.
Unless you are saying that the Bible contradicts itself?
Nope. It's over and done with.
I am saved now and my judgment has passed.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
You've already taken it upon yourself to judge your own salvation?
Again, no. I just believe God when HE tells me something is a done deal.
It's called *faith*.
Who else is capable other than GOD?
So you think you as are capable as God in your own judgement?
That's mighty high and mighty of you.
Sounds like you think you're omniscient, like God is.
“Nope. It’s over and done with. I am saved now and my judgment has passed.”
Your judgement happened at the cross.
Your sins were paid for by His blood.
Your identity in Adam was placed on the cross with Him.
You were sealed by the Spirit as a down payment until the day of redemption.
You are indwelt by the Spirit.
You gained eternal life with Him.
You have a new nature - the nature of Christ.
You were baptized (placed) into the Body of Christ.
His righteousness is yours.
You share His inheritance.
It is done. “Thanks be to God for His Indescribable Gift!”
You guys boggle my mind...Absolutely those verses speak of faith and works...But can you find faith and works in the Pauline epistles to the 'church'...Most definitely not, you can't...So what do you Catholics do??? You basically throw away the epistles to the church so you can glom onto the the scriptures that put you into bondage to your Catholic religion...
If you can't reconcile ALL of the New Testament Scripture, you have no business trying to teach doctrine to any one at any time...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Now put those verses next to the ones you posted and when you can reconcile and justify ALL of that scripture, get back to me...
Sounds like you think you’re omniscient, like God is.
***
Oh PLEASE.
Don’t get all jealous just because we believe in the promises that the Lord made to us.
You can believe them too if you like; it’s a free offer from Jesus and sealed with his own death and resurrection.
You basically throw away the epistles to the church so you can glom onto the the scriptures that put you into bondage to your Catholic religion...
***
I KNOW, RIGHT?!
And then accuse all other Christians of throwing out Scripture.
No...There is no final judgment for Christians...We have been judged already as far as salvation goes...
You've already taken it upon yourself to judge your own salvation?
Nope...I take it upon myself to believe what Jesus said to the Gentile church...And I posted just a few of the many scriptures that prove that...
No...There is no final judgment for Christians...We have been judged already as far as salvation goes...
You've already taken it upon yourself to judge your own salvation?
Nope...I take it upon myself to believe what Jesus said to the Gentile church...And I posted just a few of the many scriptures that prove that...
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