Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Luircin
According to your own church that you worship so much, you aren’t allowed to dissent.

Two corrections:

* I don't worship a "church". I worship God.

* All Catholics are obliged to voice dissent with heretics, even if they be priests, bishops, cardinals or even a pope.

28 posted on 11/03/2017 4:45:17 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies ]


To: ebb tide

Two replies:

A: Oh, you don’t worship a church? Then why is it that when you argue with me, you always quote church doctrine, church sayings, church saints? I cannot, off the top of my head, EVER remember you EVER quoting Scripture.

In fact, whenever I, or Elsie, or boatbums, or metmom quote Scripture, you outright reject it.

So yes, that leads me to a statement about worshiping the church.


31 posted on 11/03/2017 4:50:37 PM PDT by Luircin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies ]

To: ebb tide

Reply B:

Oh, really? You’re obligated to dissent against heresy, hmm? That’s nice. Too bad you’re NOT allowed to decide that Francis is a heretic, and you’re not allowed to decide what IS heresy.

I quote one of your own church doctors:

“The Instruction on the Ecclesial Vocation of the Theologian issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has addressed this matter. It recognized that theologians (and others) might question not only the form but even the substantive content of some authoritatively proposed magisterial teachings. It held that it is permissible in such instances to withhold assent, to raise questions (and present them to the magisterium), to discuss the issues with other theologians (and be humble enough to accept criticism of one’s own views by them). Theologians (and others) can propose their views as hypotheses to be considered and tested by other theologians and ultimately to be judged by those who have, within the Church, the solemn obligation of settling disputes and speaking the mind of Christ.
But it taught one is not giving a true obsequium religiosum if one dissents from magisterial teaching and proposes one’s own position as a position that the faithful are at liberty to follow, substituting it for the teaching of the magisterium. But this is precisely what has been occurring. Dissent of this kind is not compatible with the obsequium religiosum. In fact, those who dissent in this way really usurp the teaching office of bishops and popes. Theologians, insofar as they are theologians, are not pastors in the Church. When they instruct the faithful that the teachings of those who are pastors in the Church (the pope and bishops) are false and that the faithful can put those teachings aside and put in their place their own theological opinions, they are harming the Church and arrogantly assuming for themselves the pastoral role of pope and bishops.

Dissent, understood in this sense, is thus completely incompatible with the obsequium religiosum required for teachings authoritatively but not infallibly proposed.”

In other words, you’re not allowed to accuse Francis of heresy. You’re just a layman. You should shut up, according to Rome.

And while we’re at it, a quote from one of your saints.

“Even if [the Pope were an incarnate devil], we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. ... He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope.” ~St. Catherine of Siena


32 posted on 11/03/2017 4:57:09 PM PDT by Luircin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies ]

To: ebb tide; Luircin; daniel1212

And what position of authority do you have to be able to sit in judgment of your pope?

Who gave it to you?

FWIW, your own church forbids you from doing anything but submitting to the pope and the church at risk of your eternal soul.

Your college of cardinals elected this pope. Since they are guided by God in that selection (according to some here) by resisting the pope you are resisting the will of God.


37 posted on 11/03/2017 5:59:28 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson