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To: detective
the best assumption is that they had normal, conjugal marriages.

Perhaps, although women feature prominently in the Gospels, especially in John's. But mere speculation makes little for doctrines or disciplines later on.

I seriously doubt that the majority of married priests ever lived completely celibate marriages. It goes against logic, common sense and human nature.

I would think you're right, and the history of the early church bears it out -- It's not right to ask someone to live in such an arrangement. This is why we saw clerical wives placed in monasteries in earlier centuries; and in the later centuries enforcement of celibacy in the West and normalization of non-continent married clergy in the East. But it was the idea of married clerics living together in conjugal relationships with wives that was the later corruption of the older tradition, and in the West, an illicit corruption.

Martin Luther said celibacy was against human nature and lead to corruption. That is one of the reasons for the popularity of the Protestant reformation.

The reasons for the popularity of the Protestant reformation are extremely complex and have less to do with Luther's theological prowess or Biblical truth than their usefulness in the political struggles between Germanic noblemen together with their churchmen vs. the centralized Papacy. While Luther had some complaints that had merit, they could have been addressed from within the Catholic Church (and were in the post-Tridentine era).

Luther's view that celibacy is against human nature and leads to corruption says more subjectively about his own shortcomings and inability to deal with them than about the general state of human nature. Explanations of celibacy not being inconsistent with Scripture come from other voices throughout the history of the Church, including Protestant ones, and ones that view the biological side of that human nature.

58 posted on 11/03/2017 2:29:04 PM PDT by GCC Catholic (Trump doesn't suffer fools, but fools will suffer Trump. Make America Great Again!)
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To: GCC Catholic

Thanks for the reply.

You make some very good points.

Just to clarify my own position I am a devout Catholic and I am very active in my parish.

I do not have a position on celibacy and think the current requirement is working for the most part.

But it appears that the church position is slowly changing.

Many Catholics I speak to think it would be better if priests could marry.


62 posted on 11/04/2017 6:08:06 AM PDT by detective
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