Posted on 11/02/2017 8:03:59 AM PDT by Salvation
The doctrine has not changed. Here you are (admittedly?) expressing your own bias, not Catholic dogma.
Please desist from spreading falsehoods about Catholic doctrine.
Yes, you can dig out something from the Teilhardian dingbats. I'm sure you've got that at your fingertips.
Catholic dingbat opinion does not equal Catholic doctrine.
Mrs. Don-o, I have always disagreed with you but have always respected your integrity. Now you are engaging in dishonesty, which is very unlike you.
You well know that I don't subscribe to an evolutionary worldview. I put quotes around "we" precisely because it is Catholics who claim that "new knowledge" has disqualified the historicity of Genesis 1-11 from consideration. I myself have read this very thing in Catholic apologetics aimed at a popular audience. What good does an obscure old encyclical issued in Latin when what it says has been discarded by the vast majority of practicing Catholics?
I ask you again: Was there a Flood? Was there a Dispersion? Were there really ten generations from Adam to Noah, ten generations from Noah to Abraham, and six generations from Abraham to Moses?
Did the Flood literally occur in the 1656th year of Creation? The Flood in the 1996th? The Exodus in the 2448th?
Unless you wish to address these questions kindly don't respond to me again.
Funny, there was a post here yesterday quoting a medieval rabbi who came up with an age for the universe of 15 billion years, based on his understanding of the chronology of Genesis. Does he disgust you as well? Probably not.
I do believe Pope Pius XII had been made an effort when he was Pope to get Catholics back into getting into reading the Bible once again. This was before VCII.
“I believe that the Catholic Church embraced Protestant-created higher criticism (and evolution) because they undermined the truth of the Bible and thus undercut the Protestant claim of Biblical sufficiency (which claim is false, btw, as the Written Torah cannot be understood apart from the Oral Torah.) Now in order to be Catholic one simply must be a higher critic and evolutionist, or else face charges of being crypto-Protestant. On top of this is the lie that the Catholic (and Orthodox, and other ancient) churches in fact never accepted the truth of Genesis at all, and that the historical accuracy of Genesis 1-11 is a creation of nineteenth century evangelicals.
The hardest to take of Catholic (and other) hypocrisy is the fact that while they subject Genesis to uniformitarian scientific critique, they exempt the “new testament” with its equally impossible, unscientific claims such as “real presence,” resurrection from the dead, multiplication of loaves and fishes, and magical virgins who give birth to babies without the participation of a human father and whose child magically passes through the mother’s side to be born so her hymen would remain intact. All this is approved by their “scientists” and “intellectuals” but only inborn trailer trash could possibly believe in the Six Days of Creation, the Flood, or the Tower of Babel.
They disgust me.”
Thanks for your great reply. Of course I agree with you.
“Yeah, Croatian! You’d learn that the Hebrew Bible was written by primitive savages who didn’t understand how the world operates and that the Holy Torah is a splice of a collection of Babylonian and Canaanite myths!
Then they’d tell you that every alleged science-contradicting miracle in the “new testament” actually happened, because they aren’t “stupid” like the miracles of the “old testament!”
I love you. I really do.
Thank you so much. I have fought this lonely battle on FR for almost nineteen years with no allies (I had one once, but he's long since gone), since all the creationists here are Protestant and the non-Protestants are all evolutionists. Some of the Catholic FReepers actually claim that I am slandering Catholicism and that they are themselves literalist creationists, but they adamantly refuse to get involved on any thread in which Catholicism is shown to be at war with Biblical integrity.
While literalist creationism is not universal among Orthodox Jews it is still normative, and I have books and tables from Jewish publishers that assume the simple historical truth of the Biblical narrative, but for some reason they refuse to take part in the "culture wars" on Genesis--perhaps because, in their mind, "creationism" is identified with chrstianity (specifically Fundamentalist Protestantism) and don't want to be associated with it. More's the pity, since there are innumerable things to be associated with than that. But unlike the Orthodox Jews, who still adhere to the Biblical chronology quietly among themselves, the ancient chrstian churches actively attack it as a d@mnable Protestant error.
> But unlike the Orthodox Jews, who still adhere to the Biblical chronology quietly among themselves, the ancient chrstian churches actively attack it as a d@mnable Protestant error.
The first five books of the Hebrew Bible are the essence of the Written Torah. They alone contain all of the Divine precepts. Nothing may be added to them. Nothing may be subtracted from them. Even genuine prophets cannot alter anything in the Five Books of Moses. They are the ultimate criterion. (The Divine Code by Rabbi Moshe Weiner, Ask Noah International, 2011, p 38). Since the Five Books of Moses are the source of all Torah commandments, of course heretics will attack them.
Try telling that to a chrstian. "It doesn't matter that the Torah seems to imply that it is eternal. Isaiah said thus and so, and the 'new testament' interprets that prophecy thusly, therefore we know that Torah was to be (G-d forbid!) replaced by chrstianity."
And these people call Genesis literalists "simple minded."
> Try telling that to a chrstian. “It doesn’t matter that the Torah seems to imply that it is eternal. Isaiah said thus and so, and the ‘new testament’ interprets that prophecy thusly, therefore we know that Torah was to be (G-d forbid!) replaced by chrstianity.”
The Oral Torah is the true interpretation of the Five Books of Moses.
You are still a Catholic if you were baptized a Catholic. The baptismal mark on your soul does not go away. So you are just an inactive Catholic.
You can come back any time by talking with a priest and getting your questions answered.
**The hardest to take of Catholic (and other) hypocrisy **
Catholicism in not hypocrisy. It was founded on the apostles by Jesus Christ.
Where did you get this erring information?
The 3 Protestant Bibles I do have in my collection have the 66 books.
- Tobit
- Judith
- Wisdom
- Sirach
- Baruch
- 1 Maccabees
- 2 Maccabees
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