Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: unlearner; vladimir998
Vladimir is 100% right. Heresy was a civil crime, punished by the state, not the Church. It was like that since Roman times.

Do you know how the Church ultimately got involved? Do you know how the Inquisition came about?

Ok, so I am a local lord, and I don't like you. Maybe I want your land. I control the government and the courts. So I accuse you of being a heretic, try you, condemn you, and take your land. It was very easy, because if you get someone talking about theology it's very easy to trip them up I don't care how smart they are. And I'm a layman--so where do I get off accusing another layman of heresy?

So the Church said; "Aw no. WE and we alone have the power to determine what is heresy and what isn't. So we will take over the part of the trial dealing with heresy, and then we will make our recommendation to the court about what should be done."

That was the Inquisition.

It wasn't perfect, because as we can see with St. Joan of Arc, the process could still be corrupted, but it was an improvement. And remember...the death penalty for heresy was handed out very infrequently. I think in the single digits, percentage wise.

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn those who advocated for the death penalty for heresy in previous ages. They had a certain logic to their position: heresy is worse than murder, for it is infinitely worse to kill a man's soul than to kill his body. In any case, the Reformation didn't do much to change that attitude, they just flipped it around. Catholics were killed in England, Calvin sentenced Servetus to the stake, etc.

30 posted on 10/13/2017 2:37:42 AM PDT by Claud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies ]


To: Claud

“I wouldn’t be so quick to condemn those who advocated for the death penalty for heresy in previous ages. They had a certain logic to their position: heresy is worse than murder, for it is infinitely worse to kill a man’s soul than to kill his body. In any case, the Reformation didn’t do much to change that attitude, they just flipped it around.”

It is not a quick condemnation. We’ve had centuries to look at these deeds and see how plainly diabolical they were. At least some of us realize that, if not everyone does.

Jesus and the apostles dealt with persistent heresy and unrepentance by teaching excommunication, not murder. There are crimes appropriate for the state to deal with, and the enforcement of church doctrine is not one of them.

And yes, the Reformation did lead to the end of these things eventually. Sure, men like Tyndale had to be tortured to death in order for the Bible to be translated into English. But eventually the tide turned. And some of the reformations of the true church became codified into the US Constitution which mandates the God-given right of the people to freedom of religion, not dictated by the state, and that punishment for real crimes will not include cruel and unusual punishments (such as being burned alive).

As for such “logic” being reasonable, it was logic from the pit of hell that allowed a man, who was acting in obedience to God to translate the holy scriptures into English, to be burned alive for his obedience. But it is consistent with how the true church of God was formed and spread throughout the whole world.

The high priest held a real position of authority given to him by God. He even prophesied that “one man should die for the people” so that the nation would not perish at the hands of the Romans. And yet, he was controlled by Satan and moved to murder Jesus.

Likewise, Judas had a true bishopric. He was a true apostle, chosen and appointed by Christ Himself. Judas had real authority by which he could proclaim the true message of Christ, heal the sick, and cast out demons. Yet, Satan entered into him, and he betrayed our Lord to the death.

And in a similar fashion, religious leaders murdered the true servants of Christ for their obedience to Him, during the Inquisition.

You can justify, excuse, ignore, or condemn these actions. Just know that you will give an account to God for your error if these men were of God. Your own words will be used against you in judgment because you have said that “heresy is worse than murder.” Be careful that it is not you that your own words condemn.

Matthew 12:37
For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.


47 posted on 10/13/2017 11:49:41 AM PDT by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson