COMING ON CLOUDS

Prophecy Questions Blog ^ | August 19, 2017 | Charles Meek

[grumpa]

“For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will be the COMING of the Son of Man. . . . the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. . . . and they will see the Son of Man COMING on the CLOUDS of heaven with power and great glory. . . . Truly, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Matthew 24:27-34)

Matthew 24 is packed with prophetic imagery. Included in this imagery are CLOUDS and cosmic disturbances. People who are not familiar with biblical imagery assume that such language is literal. When Jesus comes again He will literally appear riding a cloud (on a white horse per Revelation 19).

I dare say that not one Christian in a hundred understands the Old Testament context of New Testament prophecy. While this is startling to most evangelicals, there is overwhelming evidence that this happened at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70—in a non-literal way. This is the preterist view of eschatology.

The nature of the Second Coming is in part determined by its timing. Jesus promised that all such prophecies would happen in his generation (Matthew 24:34). There are over 100 passages in the New Testament that affirm this time constraint (“must shortly take place,” “about to happen,” “before some standing here taste death,” “soon,” etc.) Consider Matthew 10:23; 16:27-28; 23:29-39; 26:64; Luke 21:22; Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-10; etc.

In the Old Testament, CLOUDS are used symbolically to portray God’s presence, judgment, or proclamation. People did not see God literally, but saw what He did or perceived his presence in other ways. Consider the following passage excerpts, where clouds are God’s FIGURATIVE abode or mode of travel. Often this is about God’s judgment on groups of people:

“The Lord descended in a CLOUD and stood with him there . . .” (Exodus 34:5-7)

“He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him, thick CLOUDS dark with water. . . and the foundations of the world were laid bare.” (Psalm 18:4-15, judgment against David’s enemies)

“And the Lord is riding on a swift CLOUD and comes to Egypt, and the idols of Egypt will tremble at his presence. . . .” (Isaiah 19:1-15, judgment against Egypt)

Now take a minute to look up these additional passages: Exodus 13:21; 16:10; 19:9; 33:9; Leviticus 16:2; Numbers 9:15-22; 11:25; Deuteronomy 4:11; 5:22; 31:15; 2 Samuel 22:8-15; 1 Kings 8:10-11; 2 Chronicles 5:14; Psalm 97:2-5; 104:3; Jeremiah 4:13; Ezekiel 1:4, 27-28; 10:3-4, 18-19; 30:3, 18-19; Daniel 7:13-14; Joel 2:1-2; Nahum 1:2-6; Zephaniah 1:14-15.

Jesus in the Olivet Discourse was claiming deity when He spoke of himself as “coming on clouds.” So, when we read Matthew 24, in light of this Old Testament language, we understand that Jesus’ Second Coming was a “coming in judgment” upon Israel, expressed in highly figurative, but common Hebraic apocalyptic language. His Second Coming is specifically tied to the destruction of the temple in Matthew 24:2-3.

In addition to the cloud language we see other astronomical perturbations associated with Jesus’ presence in judgment—sun darkened, stars falling, heaven shaken. This too is Old Testament imagery describing God’s “coming” in judgment. No one actually saw God, but certainly saw the EFFECTS of his judgment.

In AD 70, God used the Roman army as his instrument to punish apostate Israel. This coming/presence in judgment of Jesus in AD 70 was similar to Yahweh’s previous judgments against his enemies on multiple occasions in the Old Testament, most of which are accepted by scholars as having been fulfilled in the past.

Compare the similar language of cosmic disturbances in Matthew 24:27-31 with these Old Testament judgment passages: Isaiah 13:10-13 (against Babylon), Isaiah 34:4-10 (against Edom), Jeremiah 4:23-31 (against Judah and Jerusalem), Ezekiel 32:7-8 (against Pharaoh and Egypt), Joel 3:15-16 (against the nations), Amos 5:20, 8:9 (against Israel), Micah 1:2-16 (against Israel and Judah), Zephaniah 1:14-18 (against Judah, Jerusalem, and Judah’s enemies).

The New Testament writers emphatically taught that Jesus would return while many of his contemporaries were still alive (2 Thessalonians 1:6-8; Hebrews 1:2; 10:37; James 5:7-9; 1 Peter 1:13-20; 2 Peter 3:9-12; 1 John 1:18; etc.). Where did they get this? From Jesus himself, of course. I, for one, believe that Jesus fulfilled his promises in exactly the time and nature that He predicted. If He did not, He was a false prophet.

[dwilkins]

I don’t mean to be rude but that isn’t a very durable series of arguments. Jesus and the Apostles were clear to their generation that they would be the ones who saw these things.

[delchiante]

you’re not being rude.

I will give you another 2 day template for you to contemplate with the premise in the bible that a day is as 1,000 years or 1,000 years:

The 2 days of death darkness that the Lamb was in the tomb, before His resurrection on the ‘3rd’ day.
(the three hours of darkness on the cross also can speak to us prophetically)

Does the body of Christ truly believe it will follow the Lamb wherever He goes?
Because the Lamb went to the grave.
He fell asleep.

And even that was a picture of what happened to the first Adam!

And,you mention the apostles and the discourse. There is at least one difference/contradiction in there that makes one of those accounts different from the rest- Found in Luke.
There is also no discourse in John.

Ommissions or changes in different accounts are deliberate. They speak to His people as clues or riddles.
and speak to unbelievers as errors to their blindness.

But those slight changes, contradictions and ommissions are clues to His people.

And He gives us that in those discourses.

And I would also say to those who think 70 AD was the end of things,they would do well to recall Paul’s premise that there is ‘first the natural,then the spiritual’..

If people are simply looking at that discourse, or any of His Word with just natural eyes/natural fulfillment, they are going to miss the spiritual that comes after the natural.

Which may be why ‘about 2,000 cubits’ in the Old Testament turned into ‘about 2,000 swine (unclean) in the New Testament. But it was always going to be that way.
For His thoughts and ways are higher than ours.

For His Glory!

[dwilkins]

Is there a particular church tradition that is teaching what you are proposing? It seems to me that it would not work with any major school of eschatology other than Amillennialism, and I’ve never seen any of their writers hint at such a thing. I doubt that it would work with Postmillennialism either. It’s completely obnoxious to premillennial dispensationalism since a mandatory approximate 2,000-year gap completely eliminates the possibility of an imminent return.

[delchiante]

quote-It’s completely obnoxious to premillennial dispensationalism since a mandatory approximate 2,000-year gap completely eliminates the possibility of an imminent return.

dwilkins, time is not what the world sees it as-

I could prove the world doesn’t tell time like the Father, with His Word, but it won’t change the world from calling today:
‘Monday’ August 21st.

A day that gives honor to the ‘moon’ (honoring the created instead of the Creator) and honor to a roman emperor (instead of the Creator)

I will note that in Acts 1:6-7 His own disciples were expecting the Kingdom to be restored- then.

And He told them it wasn’t for them to know.

We’ve been blessed with His Word in our languages, and born about 2,000 years since His Resurrection- to glean clues to what is happening.

AD 70 was a marker- but not the end.

And nobodys age in the bible was recorded above 1,000 years- all short-
given that, everyone died the same ‘day’ they were born-
As He tells time
2 Peter 3:8.