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To: Iscool; Mom MD; Old Yeller; trebb; ealgeone
It's almost pointless to try to explain to dyed-in-the-wool Roman Catholics that the way they have been taught to understand certain verses of Scripture doesn't necessarily mean that it is what these passages actually say. They read that Jesus said to Peter, "...on this rock I will build my church...", and that automatically MUST mean Peter is the foundation of the church - the Catholic one, of course. We can show them that many of their OWN church fathers and doctors taught it was Peter's profession of faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God that the church/body/bride of Christ would be built upon - that Jesus is the ROCK, but they mostly ignore them.

They MUST ignore them because they also believe Peter was the first "Pope" of Rome and will claim that they can trace ALL their Popes back to him, even though that is NOT factual and cannot be verified. There WAS no universal Pope for centuries after the last Apostle died. And even IF they could be, that doesn't automatically confer "Apostleship" on every man (or woman) that came after him or that he has an "infallibility" gift to declare true doctrine outside of what Scripture teaches. There were some pretty unsavory (putting it nicely) characters that played as Pope over the years - certainly NOT the kind that Jesus would have anointed and sent out to evangelize.

Jesus Christ is the Rock upon which our faith rests (not a church) and He is the chief cornerstone upon which the spiritual house of His body is built of which we ALL as believers are like living stones:

    As you come to Him, the living stone, rejected by men, but chosen and precious in God’s sight, you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “See, I lay in Zion a stone, a chosen and precious cornerstone; and the one who believes in Him will never be put to shame. (I Peter 2:4-6)

Expect the barbs that will be shot at us because what they hold unto is based upon human pride and not the word of God. Because we believe in Jesus we will NEVER be put to shame. PTL!

34 posted on 08/13/2017 8:28:38 PM PDT by boatbums (The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation, but washes you upon the Rock of Ages.)
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To: boatbums

He told the apostles, “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them. Whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”


35 posted on 08/13/2017 8:48:58 PM PDT by narses ( For the Son of man shall come ... and then will he render to every man according to his works.)
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To: boatbums

First I remember hearing from you - enjoyed and agreed with what you said. God Bless.


40 posted on 08/14/2017 3:17:22 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: boatbums; Iscool; Mom MD; Old Yeller; trebb; ealgeone
It can be proved from Scripture that Jesus did NOT mean Peter was the Rock on which Jesus built His church.

Peter – rock

Matthew 16:18 - http://bible.cc/matthew/16-18.htm

Jesus said that Peter was *petros*(masculine) and that on this *petra*(feminine) He would build His church.

Greek: 4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros (”small stone”) then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra (”cliff, boulder,” Abbott-Smith).

“4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff” (TDNT, 3, 100). “4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

4073 pétra (a feminine noun) – “a mass of connected rock,” which is distinct from 4074 (Pétros) which is “a detached stone or boulder” (A-S). 4073 (pétra) is a “solid or native rock, rising up through the earth” (Souter) – a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.

4073 (petra) is “a projecting rock, cliff (feminine noun) . . . 4074 (petros, the masculine form) however is a stone . . . such as a man might throw” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

It’s also a strange way to word the sentence that He would call Peter a rock and say that on this I will build my church instead of *on you* as would be grammatically correct in talking to a person.

There is no support from the original Greek that Peter was to be the rock on which Jesus said he would build His church. The nouns are not the same, one being masculine and the other being feminine. They denote different objects.

Also, here, Paul identifies who petra is, and that is Christ. This link takes you to the Greek.

http://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/10-4.htm

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock (petra) that followed them, and the Rock (petra) was Christ.

http://biblehub.com/text/romans/9-33.htm

Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written,“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

http://biblehub.com/text/1_peter/2-8.htm

1 Peter 2:1-8 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good.

As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,

“The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”

and

“A stone of stumbling, and a rock (petra) of offense.

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

All occurrences of *petra* in the Greek.

http://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4073.htm

115 posted on 08/20/2017 2:17:07 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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