Posted on 08/11/2017 10:41:52 PM PDT by boatbums
Summary
The Council of Nicea is often misrepresented by cults and other religious movements. The actual concern of the council was clearly and unambiguously the relationship between the Father and the Son. Is Christ a creature, or true God? The council said He was true God. Yet, the opponents of the deity of Christ did not simply give up after the councils decision. In fact, they almost succeeded in overturning the Nicene affirmation of Christs deity. But faithful Christians like Athanasius continued to defend the truth, and in the end, truth triumphed over error.
The conversation intensified quickly. You cant really trust the Bible, my Latter-day Saints acquaintance said, because you really dont know what books belong in it. You see, a bunch of men got together and decided the canon of Scripture at the Council of Nicea, picking some books, rejecting others. A few others were listening in on the conversation at the South Gate of the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City. It was the LDS General Conference, and I again heard the Council of Nicea presented as that point in history where something went wrong, where some group of unnamed, faceless men decided for me what I was supposed to believe. I quickly corrected him about Nicea nothing was decided, or even said, about the canon of Scripture at that council.1
I was reminded how often the phrase the Council of Nicea is used as an accusation by those who reject the Christian faith. New Agers often allege that the council removed the teaching of reincarnation from the Bible.2 And of course, Jehovahs Witnesses and critics of the deity of Christ likewise point to that council as the beginning of the Trinity or the first time the deity of Christ was asserted as orthodox teaching. Others see it as the beginning of the union of church and state in light of the participation of the Roman Emperor, Constantine. Some even say it was the beginning of the Roman Catholic church.
How? Explain your position. Did someone appoint you as one to point out enemies of the faith? I’m thinking not! It’s not our job.
Jesus is the incarnate God. God in the flesh. The "deity of Jesus Christ" means Jesus IS God.
Hey! Why don’t you start your OWN thread about your pet theories? This thread is about the Council of Nicea and the Christian doctrine of the Deity of Jesus Christ. What do you believe about THAT? Nicea didn’t have anything to so with the calendar or the Sabbath.
History shows that the church of Rome went along with Arius for many years and persecuted Athanasius, who defended the Biblical truth concerning the Deity of Jesus. From the OP article:
Under Constantius, council after council met in this location or that. So furious was the activity that one commentator wrote of the time, The highways were covered with galloping bishops.22 Most importantly, regional councils meeting at Ariminum, Seleucia, and Sirmium presented Arian and semi-Arian creeds, and many leaders were coerced into subscribing to them. Even Liberius, bishop of Rome, having been banished from his see (position as bishop) and longing to return, was persuaded to give in and compromise on the matter.23
During the course of the decades following Nicea, Athanasius, who had become bishop of Alexandria shortly after the council, was removed from his see five times, once by force of 5,000 soldiers coming in the front door while he escaped out the back! Hosius, now nearly 100 years old, was likewise forced by imperial threats to compromise and give place to Arian ideas. At the end of the sixth decade of the century, it looked as if Nicea would be defeated. Jerome would later describe this moment in history as the time when the whole world groaned and was astonished to find itself Arian.24
I agree.
Well said! Truth doesn’t change.
It’s late. Just got through driving all day.
John 1:1-18 is wonderful! But don’t overlook what the writer says in verse 18: that the Son dwells in the bosom of the Father. That is literal. The verse says that no man has seen God at any time.
In John 4:23,24, Jesus Christ declares that God the Father is a Spirit.
The Father is the Word. This can be proven by what the Son of God said several times, in the book of John, that the words were not his, but his Father’s. Christ declared the Father to be in him, and he in the Father. Literally.
As I said: where is the Father NOT at?
Isaiah 42:1-7 is also worth reading.......nice and slow.
Good night and God bless
The WORD (logos) "was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." Jesus, the Son of God, IS God in the flesh. Our God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - three, yet ONE God.
Glad you're home safe. Have a nice night and a pleasant Sunday.
I’ll take the august Fathers of the Church over the self-appointed “Bible experts” on FR any day.
Not according to John:
The Word that became flesh is full of grace and truth. Those divine attributes came from the Father that dwells in the Son. In the book of John, Jesus Christ repeatedly credits the Father as the source of all things divine, and that he is in the Father, and the Father is in him. The apostles understood that, although not fully until being filled with the Holy Ghost. Who, like Jesus Christ, never used the phrase “God the Son”, but always “the Son of God”. The scriptures also don’t use the man made hybrid term “the God-man” (even many oneness apostolics are guilty of using that poor, abbreviated, description of the Son of God).
Paul told the Athenians, “for in him we live, and move, and have our being....”. Acts 17:28. Which is why I commonly ask trinitarian folks the thought provoking question: where is the Father NOT at?
The scriptures declare that the Son inherited all things from God. So there was either a time that the Son did not exist, or at least, had no divine attributes. But the Father did not have to die or go into retirement for the Son to receive those attributes. The Father is Spirit, and the Son is flesh.
The flesh that God put on was work clothes, complete with a mind and soul: the absolute ultimate in artificial intelligence. And our mind and souls are artificial intelligence, for we did not evolve from simple elements. As Paul, in agreement with certain Greek poets, also said to the Athenians, “For we are also his offspring” (Acts 17:28 again).
If you believe that the flesh was divine, separate and distinct from God the Father, then you are in the same camp as the followers of the RCC, and have to give Mary credit for making more of God (which is not possible).
Me too. Why did you send that reply to me? I;m lost on this one. I’m not in that crowd!
It is about Nicea, but you mentioned ‘come out of her’ and mentioned His Sabbath. and that Judaism knows His Sabbath.
That’s why I commented. Because it’s the journey He’s led me on.
If Judaism ‘knew’ His Sabbath, they would know the Feast of Unleavened Bread and Feast of Tabernacles begins on His 7th Day Sabbath. (15th Day is His 7th Day Sabbath)
And that ‘Pentecost’/Feast of Weeks is ALSO on His 7th Day Sabbath.
And I haven’t reviewed the chart with the calendar dates you provided, but I know all of those Pentecost dates are incorrect because of what His Word shows.
And I do recall seeing Judaism move appointed times or have postponement rules when His appointed times conflict with rome’s saturday. They moved trumpets and day of atonement (and really tabernacles) a day so it wouldn’t all conflict with their roman saturday sabbath.
quite an observation and given your premise that they know the Sabbath, I saw it just the opposite.
That really isn’t ‘knowing’ His Sabbath. That’s ‘mixing’ customs of other gods..
And given my comment on Pentecost and Feast of Weeks, and considering Christianity notes Pentecost as the birth of the church, those days being wrong are prophetic.
And the answer is found with that one day that judaism and christianity don’t ‘know’- His New Moon Day.
And it seems like you assumed that I was equating the New Moon Day with His Sabbath- I did just the opposite.
I provided a verse in His Word that says His New Moon Day is NOT one of His 6 working days or His 7th Day Sabbath.
Judaism and Christianity do not accept the premise of that verse. They only have 2 days- work or sabbath. the Father has 3 types of days. New Moon Day, 6 work days, 1 Sabbath.
And that pattern the Father teaches, if followed, (which Judaism and Christianity do not), can prove that His solemn Feasts begin on the ‘Sabbath’ Day, and that Judaism doesn’t ‘know’ His Sabbath. They are as blind as Christianity.
Something I am guessing isn’t confirmed with the list of dates you provided. But is confirmed with His calendar.
Judaism doesn’t ‘know’ His Feasts land on His 7th Day Sabbath.
Judaism thinks His Feasts are special sabbaths. different from His weekly Sabbath. because they mix rome and His Word. they mix the world with Truth and get mixed up.
But the Father’s pattern refutes that opinion or belief.
Those Feasts begin on His 7th Day. and are followed by 6 days of work. and had 6 days of work before the Feast days too (except for the Feast of Tabernacles but the life of the Son explains that)
Just as His Word says- 6 days you shall labor but the 7th Day is a Sabbath.
Judaism doesn’t follow that. They are blind to that-
They don’t truly ‘know’ His Sabbath because they don’t ‘know’ His Son.
They don’t know what day The Messiah, The Lamb, died for their sins.
They’re told it was ‘Friday’ when the Lamb died. And then saturday must be the sabbath, then. and sunday is the 1st day, then.
But that is a lie from the enemy. That lie can only be told because rome controls the way the world thinks about time. and the lie can be exposed simply by following His Word.
That is mixing the customs of other gods with His Word.
In a larger sense, that is even changing the 1st importance of the gospel Paul taught (which is Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits) according to scripture with what rome falsely teaches- a false Good Friday, false Holy Saturday, false Easter Sunday (false and untrue according to scripture)
Judaism believes rome and not His Word. they may reject rome’s jesus but they agree with rome and their jesus when it comes to His Sabbath.
amazing to observe but scripture says satan deceives the whole world. not part of it.
Judaism doesn’t know the Day after Passover is His 7th Day Sabbath.
They think the 7th Day Sabbath is ‘saturday’- not because of His Word but because rome
tells them it is. and rome controls time in these end times so, when in rome.
And so does the rest of the world- including all the daughters..
It’s like another jesus with another 1st importance of the gospel has been created simply by using a calendar. changing times and laws.
And given your premise about the mother of harlots.
That’s BAD.... VERY BAD!
Christ was in the beginning and all things were made by Christ and for Christ. The Word was with the Father (God) and the Word became flesh.
But I'm sure our Catholic friends would be the first to distance themselves from me.
My bad, sorry. I thought I was replying to something you posted, but never mind...
Yes! We worship Jesus - Lord of Heaven and earth!
I’m not sure I understand correctly all that you said, but I support any attempt to honor the Lord Jesus Christ.
I agree. Thank you for posting.
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