Posted on 04/29/2017 8:02:13 AM PDT by NYer
Oh???
Matthew 15:16
"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
Matthew 231. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2. "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5. "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6. they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
7. they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
8. "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
9. And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10. Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you will be your servant.
12. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
14. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
16. "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
17. You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18. You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
19. You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
20. Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21. And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
22. And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
23. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
28. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
30. And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
31. So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
33. "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
34. Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
35. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
37. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
38. Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
Mark 7:26-27
26. The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
27. "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
And St. Paul chimes in...
Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
NO Scriptural evidence to support that claim about Mary and her alleged consecration as a virgin. If she had, she had no business marrying Joseph.
This is why she expressed surprise at Gabriel's announcement: "How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" (1:34) It would not make sense for her to ask this question if she and Joseph were having sex after their marriage, because in that case the answer to how she would become pregnant would be obvious.
Not true.
She was surprised because they were still in the year betrothal period before the marriage was consummated. So her question was reasonable not because she was in a sexless marriage for life, but because of the customary betrothal period she and Joseph were in.
Why is it so important that she be perpetually virgin anyway?
The prophecy concerning Jesus birth was that He was born of a virgin, and He was.
There is NOTHING, not a single hint or indicator, that that virginity was to continue afterwards. On the contrary, Joseph was commanded to take Mary as planned AS HIS WIFE.
Wife means wife. Otherwise, God was defrauding Joseph of his rightful privilege as a husband.
Where is that found in Scripture?
Is that official church teaching or YOPIOS, your own personal interpretation of Scripture?
How do you know what Jesus meant and who was included or excluded from His comment?
Mary never requested a miracle from Him at the wedding of Cana.
She simply notified Him that they ran out of wine and told the servants to do whatever He told them.
The title *mother of Jesus* was used in Scripture BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, to identify MARY, not JESUS.
*mother of Jesus* identified which of the many Mary's the Holy Spirit was referring to. It was ever used to declare Jesus divinity.
So the Catholic church's excuse for changing that is invalid. It's not their business to try and correct what they see as errors in how the Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.
The fleas don’t have the dog’s given word on the matter.
It’s not like we are trying to guess what God is thinking or what He said.
HE told us Himself and that inspired Scripture is what is the standard for making Truth claims.
If teaching is not found in it, or contradicts Scripture, then there’s simply no way it can be claimed as being true.
There is no command to pray to saints. That is a man made teaching with no Scriptural authority behind it.
Commands to us about prayer as ALWAYS directing us to pray to GOD.
Never, anywhere in Scripture, are we commanded to pray to anyone else, ever.
Prayer Matthew 6:7-15 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. Pray then like this:
“ Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Luke 11:1-13 Now Jesus was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples.” And he said to them, “When you pray, say:
“Father, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread, and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.”
And he said to them, “Which of you who has a friend will go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves, for a friend of mine has arrived on a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; and he will answer from within, ‘Do not bother me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I cannot get up and give you anything’? I tell you, though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his impudence he will rise and give him whatever he needs.
And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
Luke 18:1-8 And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man. And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, ‘Give me justice against my adversary.’ For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, ‘Though I neither fear God nor respect man, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice, so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.’”
And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge says. And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”
John 14:12-14 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
1 John 5:14-15 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
Hebrews 4:14-16 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
So why pray to saints or Mary?
Don't you think God will answer Himself as He promised He would?
Do you not trust Him to hold to His word and do as He promised?
That is exactly what the Greek is saying.
In both Matthew 1:25 (ἐγίνωσκεν) and Luke 1:34 (γινώσκω) the same base verb, γινώσκω, is used though in different forms.
The meaning of the verb is properly, to know, especially through personal experience (first-hand acquaintance).
When read in context the meaning is clear.
Mary's question to Gabriel is how is she going to have the baby when she knows she and Joseph haven't engaged in sexual intimacy.
That can be the only meaning of her question.
Does she know Joseph? Yes. Have they met before? Yes. So it isn't referring to an acquaintance meaning. This leaves only the sexual meaning of the term.
Gabriel explains to her how this will happen in 1:35.
Likewise Joseph, did not "know" Mary until after Jesus was born.
Same questions about Joseph. He knew Mary, they had met, talked, etc. So this only leaves the sexual meaning of the term.
In modern day English we use similar terms for sex. Have you intimate knowledge of him/her?
Again, understanding the Greek and the context of the passages and subsequent ones where Jesus' family is noted can only lead to one understanding.
Joseph and Mary, after Jesus was born, consummated their marriage as any normal married couple would. There is no contradiction of the requirement Jesus be born of a virgin. There was no requirement of Mary remaining a virgin.
“It’s not their 9the catholic church) business to try and correct what they see as errors in how the Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.” Ah, but they have been doing it for millennia, even changing the wording in Genesis to support Mariology Mythology!
Wink-wink...
"I'll be back later to straighten this mess out!"
Leave that to the JWs and the Mormons.
Yes. But He immediately told Paul to go to Damascus (Acts 22:10), and He then sent Ananias to lay hands on Paul to fill him with the Holy Spirit and to baptize him, and then Paul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus before he started preaching (Acts 9:11-19). And the leaders of the Antioch church laid hands on Paul and Barnabas before sending Paul on his first missionary journey (Acts 13:2-3). Paul was in full communion with the rest of the Church through the laying of hands, not going it alone. And church leaders today aren't generally doing the miracles Paul was doing, which gave his message weight: "My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power." (1 Corinthians 2:4-5)
Actually, my work here is opposing the spirit of the anti-Christ Cerinthus (the Gnostic John was primarily directing his Gospel and Epistles against when he spoke of anti-Christs who deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh--1 John 4:2-3), who denied that Christ was God in the flesh by denying that Mary could be the mother of God. You cannot discern spirits accurately unless you follow the Scriptural procedures for doing so.
No, because Mary's espousal to the Holy Spirit was spiritual; her espousal to Joseph was human. Married Christians are not violating their marital vows when they become metaphorically "married" to Christ (Romans 7:1-6) and spiritually incorporated into the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:25-27, Revelation 19:7, 21:2f), either.
All the Middle Eastern, North African, and Eastern churches with roots in antiquity pray to saints, too, as did Jews to OT saints in late Judaism--hard to account for if Rome made it up. And I have already cited Scriptural references to the practice in Hebrews and Revelation.
[Reply:]Which ones?
The ones from Ambrose, Anselm, Antoninus, Athanasius, Blosius, Ephrem (misspelled "Ephem" in your reference), Fulgentius (misspelled "Fulgetius" in your reference), Guerric, Richard of Saint Laurence/Saint-Laurent (misnamed "Richard of Laurence in your reference), and John Damascene are all taken from Chapter 8 of St. Alphonsus de Liguori's Le glorie di Maria); quotes similar to the ones from Bernardine (misspelled "Bernadine" in your reference) and Bonaventure are also there; so essentially, all of them except the ones from Leo XIII are pulled out of context from Liguori, who explicitly says he is summing up what previous writers have said ("let us examine what other saints and learned men heave said on this subject; and let no one be surprised if many of these quotations are alike, for I have wished to give them all, in order to show how unanimous the various writers have been on the subject"), and who explicitly relates these quotes to Mary's intercessory prayer 13 times in that chapter alone. These quotes are teaching the efficacy of Mary's intercessory prayer to her Son, not the worship of Mary, when read in context and not pulled out of context.
Well, when I was getting an A in Logic 101, I learned that ad hominem attacks are fallacious, so they impress me accordingly.
[Reply:}The fact that Jesus said that John was less than the least in heaven is irrelevant here. Both John and Mary were on earth.
But Jesus was also on earth at the time; and He said "kingdom of heaven", not just "heaven". This is important, for He also said, "the kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21). I take what he is saying to refer to the giving of the Holy Spirit to those in the kingdom of heaven, following the distinction between John's baptism with water and the baptism with the Holy Spirit that he and the NT writers draw in a number of passages (Matthew 3:11, John 1:24-27 and 3:3-8, Acts 19:3-6, etc.). Mary was "overshadowed" by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35), and the sound of her voice fills John's mother with the Holy Spirit and makes John leap for joy (Luke 1:41). Regarding Luke 11:28, that can be translated as "Blessed *indeed* are those who hear the word of God and obey it," which would be emphasizing that Mary is blessed because she heard the word of God and obeyed it ("Be it done unto me according to your word": Luke 1:38), not merely because she is physically related to Jesus; that is how I take that passage.
Scriptural evidence supporting this is her surprise in Luke 1:34: "How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" As you pointed out, she was already married when she said this.
On why her perpetual virginity is important, St. Thomas Aquinas summed up the pros and cons on both sides of the debate (where he quotes St. Augustine interpreting Luke 1:34 the way I am interpreting it, so this is not some novel teaching): Question 28. The virginity of the Mother of God.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.