Posted on 04/29/2017 8:02:13 AM PDT by NYer
As we pray for the success of Pope Francis’ trip to Egypt this weekend, a perfect prayer to use is the oldest known Marian prayer, which in fact, traces back to the pope’s host country.
The oldest known Marian prayer is found on an ancient Egyptian papyrus dating from around the year 250. Today known in the Church as the Sub tuum praesidium, the prayer is believed to have been part of the Coptic Vespers liturgy during the Christmas season.
The original prayer was written in Greek and according to Roseanne Sullivan, “The prayer is addressed to Our Lady using the Greek word Θεοτόκος, which is an adjectival form of Θεοφόρος (Theotokos, or God-bearer) and is more properly translated as ‘she whose offspring is God.'” This helps to prove that the early Christians were already familiar with the word “Theotokos” well before the Third Ecumenical Council at Ephesus ratified its usage.
Below can be found the original Greek text from the papyrus, along with an English translation as listed on the New Liturgical Movement website:
| On the papyrus, we can read: .ΠΟ ΕΥCΠΑ ΚΑΤΑΦΕ ΘΕΟΤΟΚΕΤ ΙΚΕCΙΑCΜΗΠΑ ΕΙΔΗCΕΜΠΕΡΙCTAC AΛΛΕΚΚΙΝΔΥΝΟΥ …ΡΥCΑΙΗΜΑC MONH …HEΥΛΟΓ |
And an English translation could be: Under your mercy we take refuge, Mother of God! Our prayers, do not despise in necessities, but from the danger deliver us, only pure, only blessed. |
More commonly the prayer is translated:
Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Mother of God:
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.
Several centuries later a Latin prayer was developed and is more widely known in the Roman Catholic Church:
| Latin Text Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, Sancta Dei Genetrix. Nostras deprecationes ne despicias in necessitatibus nostris, sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper, Virgo gloriosa et benedicta |
English Text We fly to Thy protection, O Holy Mother of God; Do not despise our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us always from all dangers, O Glorious and Blessed Virgin. Amen. |
The prayer is currently part of the Byzantine, Roman and Ambrosian rites in the Catholic Church and is used specifically as a Marian antiphon after the conclusion of Compline outside of Lent (in the older form of the Roman breviary). It is also a common prayer that has stood the test of time and is a favorite of many Christians, and is the root of the popular devotional prayer, the Memorare.
“Yes, exactly: it is asking for prayers from our Mother (John 19:27).
Except she isn’t your mother.
They don't see how they've elevated her to a position equal to Christ.
It may explain why Catholic "Mary" replaces Jesus in so much of Catholic thought and writings.
When you pray, do not babble repetitiously like the Gentiles, because they think that by their many words they will be heard. (Matthew 6:7)
Speak not any thing rashly, and let not thy heart be hasty to utter a word before God. For God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few. (Eccles. 5:2)
Not all Catholics are Christians any more than all Baptists are, or all Methodists are or all *fill in the blank* are.
There are Christians in every local church or denomination and there are non-Christians in every local church or denomination. The only thing that changes is the ratio.
Now, do you REALLY want to go ahead and claim that the likes of Ted Kennedy, Pelosi, Chavez, Castro, etc are CHRISTIANS?
So what's that got to do with ealgeone's comment?
It in no way addresses what he said.
Why the continual deflection and topic changing?
Ah, but that idea that they are fielding the prayers of the saints is an ASSUMPTION.
How do you know they are not their OWN prayers?
And so what if it's a practice dating back how ever many years?
If it's not Scriptural, and it's not, then it doesn't matter how many people and who they were who practiced it. It's still wrong.
....and God being the eternal Creator of space and time does not have a problem fielding a billion requests a day—unlike me, as I’m still catching up on the thread between moments away from work.
That's because He's God and no human is. Mary does not have God's ability to do this, being a mere created being herself.
Lastly, the argument that it's OK to do something simply because Scripture doesn't tell us we can't is the absolute weakest and lamest justification for making up theology that I have ever seen.
Kneeling before a statue of her violates the second commandment.
Exodus 20:4-6 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Most prayers to Mary are asking her FOR things, not asking her to pray for us.
It's easy to see wit ha quick google search and decent reading comprehension.
What’s wrong with consecrating your heart right to Jesus Himself and praying directly to the Father in Jesus’ name as we are commanded and taught to do by Jesus?
Don’t you think He’s going to hear and answer Himself?
I have had people say to me when I asked them if they were a Christian, say, “No, I’m a Catholic.”
It’s not so unusual.
Worth repeating: that they are unaware of what they've done and they they have elevated her to a position equal to Christ.
They have made dear, blessed Mary into a Demigoddess, with god-like powers, but approachable and able to wrap God around her little finger.
Sadly, the bl8indness is such that Catholics cannot see or acknowledge the blasphemy in Mary worship. But thank you for posting so precisely. Get well soon!
A few thoughts WRT Lazarus, the rich man and Abraham’s bosom:
- the rich man described suffering as if he had a physical body which could feel thirst, torment, burning
- Abraham was described as having a physical body (he was embracing Lazarus)
- souls won’t have physical bodies until the resurrection whether in paradise/heaven or hades
FWIW.
-
Yeah...there’s the love!
There’s lots to be said here, as your post points out.
I’ve avoided the discussion because it does not involve prayer.
By the same tokens, that could preclude insistence upon the equivocation "Mother of God".
If those in attendance at Council of Ephesus had intended to convey fullest sense of the term 'Mother of God' they could have (and would have?) coined a phrase conveying more precisely that very sense, yet they did not. They refrained from going *quite* that far with things, at that time...
It was only later individuals more commonly began further elevation of "Mary" towards being über-saint, the highest of all those perceived to be saints.
That papyrus 470 has possible early date (AD 250) is rather slim chance [see Dating the Sub Tuum Praesidium – Is Marian Veneration Apostolic? in ending note concludes;
Furthermore, regardless of whether it is third or fourth century, it is the first such example of prayer to Mary. From this, we can reasonable infer that prayer to Mary is not an apostolic tradition – it is a human tradition that arose centuries after Christ’s resurrection.
Well then. So much for Peter having the only copy of "the keys". Seems like there are duplicates in circulation.
That means; no more singular papacy. It was a mistake from the get-go anyhow.
Glad that's finally settled.
Parting shots are usually the last vestige of the defeated. Count it all joy!
**And yes, Rome assembled the Bible that Protestants use. Even translated it for them. Attacking Rome is cutting off the limb you’re standing on.**
Yes, God has even used the pagans to preserve his word.
God used the ‘unclean’ to preserved his ‘testimony’ many times, and still does no doubt.
He used Egypt to preserve Abraham from famine,
the Philistines to preserved Isaac from famine,
Egypt preserved Israel from famine,
the Philistines preserved David from king Saul,
first ravens, then a woman of Sidon, preserved Elijah from famine,
and Egypt preserved the child Jesus from king Herod.
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