The catholic cannot appeal to the ECFs on this issue for again...they are not in agreement. Some favor the roman catholic understanding and others do not. Do we accept only those who agree with us and reject the others?
If so, other positions are called into question due to the inconsistency of the ECFs on the issues.
So which understanding are we to believe?
Again, we have to look at the context of John 6:26-71 and John as a whole to gain the proper understanding of this passage.
Focus on the word believe. That's the key word to understanding this passage.
In John 6, why doesn’t Jesus stop and explain to his followers, who are now leaving him, that he’s only being “symbolic”, here?...
Two observations.
1). "But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
The ones who left Him did not believe as He noted.
We could easily ask why doesn't Jesus chase after athiests, Muslims, etc today?
2) Why does Jesus allow the rich young ruler to walk away?
21Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property. Matt 19:21-22 NASB
Are we saved if we haven't done what Jesus told the rich young ruler?
Ok, good points. I appreciate the discussion.
I haven’t found any ECFs who disagreed with the Real Presence. As you alluded to, it is almost certainly because we would not consider them truly ECFs if they didn’t at least come around to the belief in the end. We do not consider this an issue. So, it’s how do you define an ECF (the saints) vs “early Christians”.
From what I have read, it seems our ECFs differ from many today in that they believed Christ (and thus God and thus heaven) is mysteriously present in the entire created order (NOT pantheistically; still distinct substantially from the material, but present) and that the bread and wine are some sort of intensification of that presence.
I don’t understand your point about moslems and atheists, because they weren’t even in John. I’ll read as you suggested, focusing on “believe”.
The rich man went away grieving, which is what we all should be doing when we accumulate wealth - that itself has value for others, as we know. But we still grieve because it distracts us from holiness in many ways. We don’t know how that rich man ended up. We do know those who left after the Bread of Life discourse went back to their old ways and were lost.
Protestants often (mistakenly, we’d say) argue Catholic beliefs are wrong in themselves, like honoring Mary is goddess-worship, etc. I still don’t understand Protestant arguments against the Eucharist. That is, what’s wrong with it?