Posted on 11/30/2016 2:41:47 PM PST by SeekAndFind
See #432 above
I disagree with your interpretation of the self evident passages. Besides that, I thought that you needed a priest to interpret the Bible for you? That's what I was told when I was a Catholic, MANY years ago.
I hope you are not going to say what another Catholic FR poster told me a couple years ago, that he didn't interpret scripture, he just read it, and told me what it said. Needless to say, we did a hearty ROTFL.
At any rate, I agree with the other addressees, and disagree with you. I can see the others have tried to tell you the truth. It appears you don't really want the truth, so there is no hope in trying to reason with you. They have already tried.
The REAL issue here, is not all these peripheral doctrines, like communion, baptism, Christian living. I don't care as much about those things. The only thing I want to know is, what is your plan of salvation? How are you planning to get into Heaven. Nothing else is important.
I have a feeling, however, that if you tell me what your idea of getting saved is, I would probably disagree with it. So be it bro.
Yes, “It is the spirit that quickens: the flesh profits nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.”
“But there are some of you that believe not.”
And there are STILL some that don’t believe that the SPIRIT gives life and that the FLESH, which Catholics claim you have to eat and gives life, profits for NOTHING.
And you never addressed the contradiction between Catholic teaching and the clear, plain reading of the entirety of Scripture.
Additionally. Peter HIMSELF declares that he had never eaten anything unclean. That would include eating human flesh and drinking human blood.
So did Peter lie to God when he said that?
Peter never ate flesh and blood according to words from his own mouth.
1Cor. 11:23- 29,
“Which also was carefully explained to you”
You “explained” nothing.
You provided an excuse for your obstinance.
Hint:
The OT and the covenant of the NT are NOT “at the same time.
Yes, I addressed this nonsense also, among the dozen or so deniers posting here.
The Eucharist is not a violation of the Law.
The Eucharist isn’t consumption of Blood in the normal sense.
Otherwise, we’d be cannibals. Although it’s literally Jesus’ Body and Blood, we aren’t destroying Jesus in the process.
So it’s no more against Jewish kosher laws than it is against the Christian prohibition against cannibalism.
Great theological depth.
Besides that, I thought that you needed a priest to interpret the Bible for you?
Really?
I thought that myth died at Trent.
Like St. Paul, I’m working out my salvation in fear and trembling.
I’m baptized and confess and study my faith.
I fall short and ask forgiveness.
I avail myself of God’s graces as often as possible.
It should be more than obvious that Christ's REAL meaning is not about the physical acts (or beliefs concerning) the consuming of the bread and wine of the observance of the Lord's Supper/Eucharist (thanksgiving) but of the FAITH that is required in order to have eternal life. The eating and drinking of the elements does not supplant the requirement of faith in what those elements represented - the broken body and shed blood of the Lamb of God for the sins of the world. We demonstrate our faith in Christ by doing as He commanded us to "for whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes."
I seems to me that Catholics place a much higher priority on the receiving of the Eucharist than the faith IN Jesus Christ and what He did for us. Some Catholics even go so far as to assert forcefully that ONLY their priests have the authority to "confect" the elements and administer them to believers and NO ONE else can do so, thereby making the reception of the Eucharist - and the grace for salvation they contain - ONLY available to Catholics. Other Christians are deprived of their benefits. Taking that logic a step further, since only the Catholic priest can give the elements and ONLY Catholics in a "state of grace" can validly receive them, the rest of the non-Catholic Christian body has no access to salvific grace. Now, that is a WHOLE lot of reading into the words Jesus spoke as told in John 6. It also blatantly contradicts much of Scripture that teaches salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and that we participate together in our remembrance of Him and His gift of everlasting life as a reminding testimony to ourselves and each other before God.
Your mind is carnal, focused upon a carnal perspective. Jesus knew His disciples, His closest followers, needed to be brought out of the carnal and refocused upon the spirit.
As He told Nicodemus, just as the Brass snake in the desert, when looked upon and believing God's Promise, would heal the physical body, He, Jesus (God with us) came to be lifted up to heal the spirit ... HEAL THE SPIRITUAL side of you, not the carnal side.
The directing of the will of the man is the method by which God heals the dead soul/spirit. When were the three thousand saved, born from above, on the day of Pentecost? when were the folks in the house of Cornelius saved? There is not one word of taking the Lord's Table at either of those momentous moments in human History, when GOD's Salvation came to the Jews, then to the Gentiles.
"Salvation cometh by HEARING and hearing by the Word of God". Saving the soul is not done by some carnal ingestion ritual performed by a specious priestly class, it is done by individually bowing THE WILL to accept what He did for us on that Cross.
You keep pointing to the scene in Matthew of the Lord's Table, when He took bread as the symbol of His body, not His body, BREAD; and He passed the cup of WINE, not transmogrified blood, and taught us how to do this ritual to focus our hearts upon His work done THE NEXT DAY on our behalf.
Two points you refuse to see are: 1) He instituted the Red>REMEBRANCE BEFORE He went to the cross; 2) He told them He would not drink wine again until in the Kingdom, identifying FOR YOU that there was ONLY wine in the cup, that using the symbols we affirm The Body of Christ, His Bride, His Ekklesia.
You insist on twisting the spiritual REMEMBRANCE into a pagan rite, which was very familiar to the Roman devils whose descendants now mock God with this devilish rite of flesh and blood supposedly transfigured from bread and wine (and now not even the wine!) into real flesh and blood of the idolatrous catholic religion's jesus.
Dude, you are disgusting as you continue pushing this paganization of the Spiritual which Jesus started for spiritual benefit ON THE NIGHT BEFORE HE WENT TO THE CROSS. Only via sick magic thinking can you continue to insist He served His real flesh and real blood for His disciples to imbibe before He had actually die upon that cruel cross. You are disgusting. YOU would have us believe Jesus will be drinking blood IN THE KINGDOM!
I'm going to tell you this one more time: you do not get God inside of your spirit by swallowing flesh and blood magically transmogrified from bread and wine for digesting in the alimentary tract.
Here is wisdom. Hear here!
Amen. It is beyond irony that something that so beautifully designed to remind all believers they are one body in Christ, that they all have a shared life through the blood of Jesus, has been weaponized to cause division. What should point us to the pinnacle of divine love for God and each other is degraded to a balkanizing debate about what the meaning of “is” is.
Here’s another thought I’ve had on this. We know from the book of Hebrews that God works in types and antitypes, an earthly thing that represents a heavenly thing. That’s what a metaphor is. Metaphor is not some cheap, shallow trick, people. It is God’s chosen way to download His vast, unimaginable truth into our tiny little minds and souls. It’s God’s chosen way to bring His people closer to Him and each other. God is love. Love bridges the gap, finds a way into the heart of the beloved. That’s what this metaphor of the body and blood in the bread and the wine does. It takes us into a higher reality. It enables us to see His love for us afresh, time after time. It is a beautiful thing.
Peace,
SR
Really?
I thought that myth died at Trent.
Like St. Paul, I’m working out my salvation in fear and trembling.
I’m baptized and confess and study my faith.
I fall short and ask forgiveness.
I avail myself of God’s graces as often as possible.
Yes, really bro. I don't know or care about Trent. Maybe those priests didn't get the memo. I am sure my ex Catholic friends got the same message. Most, if not all of us, were told either don't read the scriptures, or get a priest to interpret it for us.
On those other issues, I doubt I agree with your interpretation of scripture, so, since others have tried to tell you the truth, and it appears you are not really interested in the truth, there really isn't any reason to discuss anything further with you.
I hope you make it to Heaven bro, but if you don't, that's on you. See you at the Pearly Gates, maybe.
It's ALL Scripture and ALL relevant.
I also find it ironic that you dismiss *other references* and yet drag in John 6 which is not connected to the Last Supper in the least.P> Don't be a hypocrite.
God clearly prohibits the eating of blood. Period.
That command is reiterated by the church fathers, the church leaders and the HOLY SPIRIT at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. That's AFTER the Last Supper and outside the Law.
The prohibition still stands in God's eyes.
Salvation is by grace through faith as it ALWAYS has been.
Works of the Law never justified anyone or cleansed anyone from sin. And if the works of the Law that God established couldn't or didn't do it, then nothing else man invents or tries to substitute for it can or will.
As it rests on my tongue, it will read out "unleavened bread", unbleached flour, water, pinch of salt.
As it travels down my throat, it will read out "unleavened bread", unbleached flour, water, pinch of salt.
Resting in my stomach it will read out "unleavened bread", unbleached flour, water, pinch of salt but beginning to feel the burn of enzymes starting to tear me down
Everybody knows that to be true and no magic words from a robed magician can alter that scientific fact.
If you don’t need a priest to interpret the Bible for you, then each and every Catholic will have to depend on their own personal interpretation of Scripture, the very thing Catholics condemn when non-Catholics do it.
Plain teaching: "...call no man father..."
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