Posted on 03/10/2016 5:43:19 PM PST by grumpa
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Horsepucky gramps.
I was just reading 1 Peter today and was.looking up studies, particularly referencing 4:7.
If it means what a lot of people think it means, then Peter was a fraud.
Would that be two Peter three?
I guess your Bible doesn’t have Rev. 21:1 in it.
Christus Victor
I’ve read some books on dominion theology.
Days of Vengeance by David Chilton is an interesting book but I am not argumentative on a pre or post millennial.
I just say it will all pan out, in God’s time.
Poor ole preterists. The don’t have a prayer of a chance. (Giggle. Chortle. Guffaw, guffaw, guffaw . . . )
I don’t pretend to know exactly all that’s going to happen
at the end of the age. I fear God & trust Christ to save me
from the wrath to come. I know I have no control over what
transpires. - This mortal coil has been terrible AND also
wonderful. I would not have missed it & I’m looking for the
return of Yeshua HaMaschiach (Jesus Christ) & praying to be
ready for His return. (If I have to ride a white horse in
His army, I’m not much of an equestrian or warrior; but
maybe He will empower me to be able to serve.) If He does
all the fighting Himself; I guess that takes care of that
concern.
For anyone pushing back against this list, consider the source of the phrase “New Heavens and New Earth”. It comes from Isaiah 65-66. Below is a section of Isaiah 66 that describes the second coming and the conditions of the “New Heavens and New Earth”:
Isa 66:18 “For I know their works and their thoughts, and the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and shall see my glory,
Isa 66:19 and I will set a sign among them. And from them I will send survivors to the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, who draw the bow, to Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands far away, that have not heard my fame or seen my glory. And they shall declare my glory among the nations.
Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the LORD, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the LORD, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD.
Isa 66:21 And some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says the LORD.
Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain.
Two questions: 1) Why are there people in the New Heaven and New Earth who weren’t aware of the second coming? 2) Why are there people who have to have the second coming explained to them by missionaries, which flatly requires that there are still unbelievers running around?
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The flood purged, purified and cleansed the surface of the planet.
No reason this fire, if literal, won’t purge, purify and clean the surface of the planet.
Isa. 65-66 are to considered as a continuation of a reality not realized because of the failure of Israel to heed her prophets following her restoration from captivity. The descriptions pointed to the universal changes IF Israel had fulfilled her divine mission. A spiritual renewal throughout earth could have been effected to embrace the birth of our Savior. This did not happen. To try to apply these verses to a future New Heaven and Earth results in severe dilemmas as you have noted. A person could try to twist a metaphorical sense out of it otherwise but I cannot. Isaiah ends on this sad lamentation of what could have been.
Peace be to you.
Yes. It means evil will be utterly destroyed.
Does this sound like a God who promised not to destroy the earth (Genesis 9:11)?
Yes it does. He promised not to destroy earth by a flood. In other words not by a global deluge. Make no mistake, this earth and its atmosphere will be burned up but not the righteous. By leaving out a key part of His promise, the question is unfair to God.
What a strangely bi-polar point of view. Are you saying that if Israel had heeded Isaiah’s prophecy that Christ would have arrived to an idealistic world, sort of like the Postmillennialists propose? And, what do you make of Paul applying Isaiah 65 directly to his ministry?
Isa 65:1 I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me; I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me. I said, “Here I am, here I am,” to a nation that was not called by my name.
Isa 65:2 I spread out my hands all the day to a rebellious people, who walk in a way that is not good, following their own devices;
Isa 65:3 a people who provoke me to my face continually, sacrificing in gardens and making offerings on bricks;
Isa 65:4 who sit in tombs, and spend the night in secret places; who eat pig’s flesh, and broth of tainted meat is in their vessels;
Isa 65:5 who say, “Keep to yourself, do not come near me, for I am too holy for you.” These are a smoke in my nostrils, a fire that burns all the day.
Isa 65:6 Behold, it is written before me: “I will not keep silent, but I will repay; I will indeed repay into their lap
With God all things are possible. Do not doubt His power. Just the shortcomings of man. If the world had been evangelized with all nations alerted that the Promised One was coming, then these things would have happened. If you doubt it take it up with Him.
And, what do you make of Paul applying Isaiah 65 directly to his ministry?
That Paul applies Isa. 65:1 to the Gentiles. Remember that the Jews thought the Gentiles had no way to redemption. Paul points to this verse to differ with them.
Preterstism twists scripture.
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
There it is in black and white. It is very clear the earth will be destroyed. That settles it for me regardless what some disbelievers say.
“With God all things are possible. Do not doubt His power. Just the shortcomings of man. If the world had been evangelized with all nations alerted that the Promised One was coming, then these things would have happened. If you doubt it take it up with Him.”
Did you just make this up? I’m not aware of any theologian who has ever postulated anything like this.
I think you should think about the reality that the Apostles, in scripture, apply the fulfillment of these eschatological scriptures to their generation. There are more than 360 direct and indirect times statements in the New Testament that assert the second coming was going to happen in the lifetimes of the New Testament generation. Were Jesus and the Apostles wrong?
I guess that is my fault somehow.
statements in the New Testament that assert the second coming was going to happen in the lifetimes of the New Testament generation.
Those prophecies applied to more than one event. Also do not be confused by the Apostles exhortations to be "prepared" for the Second Coming. Every generation is to be prepared and waiting, for no man (including the Apostles) knows the day or hour. Being prepared was(is) still good counsel.
Were Jesus and the Apostles wrong?
Jesus was never wrong. The Apostles had a learning curve (which greatly accelerated after His Ascension).
Peace be unto you.
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