Posted on 12/31/2015 4:29:48 PM PST by NYer
Both the ‘Did God die?’ question and the ‘mother of God’ debate turn on definitions which the opposing sides do not seem to agree on. What is death? What is a mother?
Mary is the mother of God. “Mother” is an earthly, human term. It does not mean creator. Your mother did not create you; she participated in the creation of your earthly body. Your soul was created by God, before you were ‘knitted’ in the womb. Mary participated in the creation of Jesus’ and thus God’s, human body. That is what being the ‘mother of God’ means. The idea that Mary created God is valid only to those who believe mothers create their children. Since I don’t think anyone really believes that, this entire argument is pointless. There really is no disagreement, there are only people trying to assign to Catholics beliefs that they don’t hold.
As far as God dying goes, death is also an earthly construct. It is the separation of the soul from the human, earthly body. Jesus did die in the manner of humans, because He was fully human. His being was separated from His earthly form, just as our soul will be separated from our body when we die. Our souls never die (unless going to hell is considered death), and the being of God will never die. The only way Jesus’ death is a problem is if God is limited to the earthly plane, which I think we all agree He is not. Jesus suffered death. His being left His human body and then returned, precisely because God, in any of His persons, is not constrained to earth or human limitations.
Love,
O2
Jesus said to follow Him not some church. A church can not save anyone but Jesus can.
While I appreciate your explanations, did it not occur to you that if you have to go to such lengths to explain what is meant by more ambiguous terms or statements, perhaps they are not the best to use?
For example, changing *mother of Jesus* to *mother of God* does nothing except foster confusion and leave the door open for misunderstanding who Mary is and the nature of God.
The more specific term *mother of Jesus* requires no verbal gymnastics to clear up misconceptions about who Mary is. There’s no need for convoluted explanations about how Mary isn’t REALLY “GOD’S” mother cause God doesn’t have a mother, etc.
*Mother of Jesus* doesn’t need any further explanation of who Mary is. It’s concise, accurate, succinct, beautiful in its simplicity.
Not to mention, the term of choice by the Holy Spirit.
If I have to choose between going with what the Holy Spirit inspired or what man changed it to, I’ll take the Holy Spirit’s version.
I think He knows a little bit better which term to use than man does.
I will be 72 soon and I have never heard anyone refer to their dad as father. It was always Dad, Pops, Pa, etc. I called my dad Pa since that is what my oldest nephew called him. I am 2 years older than he. Even my great granddaughters refer to him as Pa. They were born years after his death but we all talk about my parents. They have seen pictures of them, too.
Amen. No man can forgive any sins. None.
You have entirely missed the point.
The problem is not whether Mary is mother of God or Jesus, because she is the mother of Jesus who IS God.
The problem is assuming Catholics equate ‘mother’ with ‘Creator’, which we do not do. Being the mother of God does not make Mary His creator or predecessor, it makes her the human vessel by which God’s human form arrived on earth. That is what a mother is. It is not confusing at all.
Any confusion is purposefully being created to cause dissent between Christians by trying to ascribe to Catholics a definition of motherhood that they do not hold. I wonder who might be behind that?
Love,
O2
Amen, and amen. It's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.
:-)
Stupid facts getting in the way of ignorance.
Or her parents not being the grandparents of God and so forth back to Adam and Eve, and the Jews and Romans murderers of God. You are simply refusing to see the point.
The distinction that Mary is the Mother of God is not undercut by a non-mention of the word Mother in your quote from Romans. Much Like bachelor is an unmarried man a woman who conceives and bears a child is the Child's Mother. There's no way this could not be the case without saying something terribly awkward about Jesus and Salvation.
Of course there is a way to qualify it, as the Holy Spirit does, as this birth was no ordinary birth, yet MoD is almost always used without any qualification and as part of the unScriptural hyper exaltation of the holy Mary of Scripture into an almost almighty heavenly demi-goddess with attributes of deity and which much parallel Christ.
Who is Jesus? He is the Second person of the Trinity. (Heb 1:3) Jesus is God.
And again, this makes Jews and Romans murderers of God, God-killers, which also can be said in a qualified sense as technically correct, but in the case of Rome it is a formal title which is part of a whole host of titles, attributes and glory that is way way beyond what is written of her or is even close to what is said of any created being. In essence they are adding to the word of God.
If you deny this...
I rejection the formal title MoG we are not denying that Mary gave birth to the second person of the Trinity no matter how often you resort to trying to charge this in order to almost demand she be called by this title as well as be given all the hyper-exaltion that Spirit of God nowhere provides in Scripture. But Scripture is only an abused servant for many RCs in wresting it to support of Rome.
f you deny this you deny the same reality that gives value to the meaning "God died on the Cross."
Exactly, and which is also nowhere said, though technically true, but misleading, as God also existed in Heaven while the Divine Lord Jesus died.
Your quotation of speculation from Cardinal Ratzinger, not doctrine, is in reference to a title I'm not discussing. It is a separate issue from the title Mother of God.
You are simply ignoring that the argument is applicable here as well, and that MoG is part of a the unScriptural elevation of a created being which goes way beyond what the Spirit says of any created being.
What is generally ignored in that disobeying the command to call no man Father, is that Jesus is addressing religious leaders and titles assigned to them.
For all Catholics demand context when it suits them, they ignore it when it suits them.
The context is calling religious leaders by the title of *Father*. It does not address at all a child calling his or her male parent *Dad*, *Daddy*, whatever.....
Still waiting for an answer as to why Catholics felt the need to change the work of the Holy Spirit in reassigning a title to Mary placemarker.
Oh yeah!!
So, you see, Scripture calls Mary the Mother of God.
Really?
The guy on the TV yesterday said water would fall from the sky.
I got snow.
I've had EVERY FR Catholic FAIL to show that their pet phrase can be FOUND in the bible.
They have to synthesize it out of bits and pieces of Scripture.
It mattereth not. They are mere mortals (until sainted).
Sure it does because only sinners need a Lord!
And this is why RC's and EO's preach EXACTLY the same stuff; right?
True; just Our Way or the Highway types.
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