Posted on 12/16/2015 12:50:41 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o
What your posts show is that you are ignoring the real issue....that what is being professed in the Vatican contradicts traditional Catholic teaching.
This is why we can pray in all sincerity, along with the Guardian Angel of Portugal (Fatima 1916):
O my Jesus,
Forgive us our sins,
Save us from the fires of Hell.
Lead all souls to heaven,
Especially those in most need of Thy mercy.
Why do I say this? Because Salvation is still a mystery in the hands of God, like the unbaptized, ostensibly nonChristian poor Jew Lazarus at rest--- as Christ said --- in the bosom of Abraham.
Which is what the document you object to, said: "That the Jews are participants in God's salvation is theologically unquestionable, but how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly, is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery."
Tagline.
You tellin’ me the Noo Yawk Times lied? Again?
Do they manage to get anything right?
My point: Roman Catholocism says it worships the same god as Muslims.
Either you believe that you worship the Muslim god like Rome says you do, or you disagree with Rome.
Either you believe in the Muslim god, as the Pope does. Or you don’t.
Either you follow a religion that says you believe in the Muslim god, or you don’t.
There is no mystery here:
1 John 5:13 Â These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God;
that ye may know that ye have eternal life,
and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:20 Â And we know that the Son of God is come,
and hath given us an understanding,
that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true,
even in his Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true God, and eternal life.
Yes, and tagline.
Jews who do not believe in Christ can be saved in the same way that all others who do not believe in Christ can be saved—by God’s mercy and by a sincere desire to live in accordance with what is true and good. And a necessary condition for them is either absolute ignorance of Christ or invincible ignorance of Christ. Jews who may be saved are not saved by any power of the Old Covenant.
It’s very clear that you, Catholics in general, the Pope claim to worship the same God as Muslims. That’s certainly your right to do so.
As for me, I’d rather die than worship the Muslim’s God.
My God is Jehovah.
As an American, why would you follow a religion that aligns itself with the God of Islam?
Lazarus is the bosum of Abraham is not Heaven.
No, the document is saying is that “the Jews” as a whole can be saved without explicitly accepting Christ. It is not speaking about individual souls who may or may not be invincibly ignorant.
The document speaks heresy. You can either accept that and deal with it or you can choose to continue to explain it away like Jimmy Akin and his ilk and live in ignorance.
There is only one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Will you also profess to worship and adore the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob on this thread or will you forbear ?
As for me, I’d rather die than worship the Muslim’s God.
Would you rather die than worship the Jew's God ?
My God is ... And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Zechariah, Catholic chapter fourteen, Protestant verse nine,
Romans, Catholic chapter three, Protestant verses twenty nine to thirty,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
As an American, why would you follow a religion that aligns itself with the God of Islam?
Faulty logic; false premise; you fail the test. There is no God of Islam, although there is a God of the Muslims.
Why in the world would you worship the god of Islam?
Why would you for one minute agree with anyone who did? It’s a shame to me, to even speak of such things, that an American would knowingly follow a religion that worships a false god.
With that having been said, it’s your right to choose to worship the god of the Muslims.
Me? They’d have to murder me first.
Rome is wrong. Muslims god had no son. They, and by confession, Rome, do not worship God.
The section we are volleying back and forth about at the moment, states:
" Confessing the universal and therefore also exclusive mediation of salvation through Jesus Christ belongs to the core of Christian faith. . . . [T]he Church and Judaism cannot be represented as "two parallel ways to salvation."
There's no way around that. It's clear as a bell. Then it also says,
"That the Jews are participants in God's salvation is theologically unquestionable, but how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly, is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery."What exactly is meant by 'participants' needs to be clarified.
It does NOT say "the Jews as a whole can be saved without explicitly accepting Christ."
Consider that God used words like 'forever" and "for all generations" and "perpetually" dozens, maybe hundreds of times when referring to His covenant with Israel and His ordinances and His gifts and His promises to them. The Jews, as a nation, have a historic and ongoing role in the Salvation History of the human race.
What exactly is the ongoing signiicance of the providential survival of the Jews in history and to this present day? What has it to do with God's "perpetual" gifts and promises to them? We can't quite fathom it, but it has somethng to do with the Lord Jesus' ultimate saving victories as Messiah of Israel and Savior of the World. When we see the whole story unfolded at the End of the Age, we will see that the Jews had some role as participants in God's plan of salvation.
That paragraph that so troubles you does not mean "All Jews are automaticaly saved, they don't need Christ." It means that the Jewish People had, and still have, some role, some participation in Salvation History. We don't know exactly what it is, but God's ways are "unfathomable," (Isaiah 40:28) and His promises to the Jews are --- in His words --- perpetual.
It sure ain’t hell.
You have never directly responded to Pope Pius IX's comments about the Jews here (and no one else has either). He is CLEARLY stating that the Jews are no longer the Chosen people and they no longer have the promises. Rather you chose to go off on an "invincible ignorance" tangent.
the Catholic Church has always been accustomed to pray for the Jewish people, who were the depository of divine promises up until the arrival of Jesus Christ, notwithstanding their subsequent blindness, or rather, because of this very blindness. Moved by that charity, the Apostolic See has protected the same people from unjust ill-treatment, and just as it censures all hatred and enmity among people, so it altogether condemns in the highest degree possible hatred against the people once chosen by God, viz., the hatred that now is what is usually meant in common parlance by the term known generally as anti-Semitism.
What is said in the most recent heretical document would never have been uttered by the lips of pre-Vatican II popes.
17. On the part of many of the Church Fathers the so-called replacement theory or supersessionism steadily gained favour until in the Middle Ages it represented the standard theological foundation of the relationship with Judaism: the promises and commitments of God would no longer apply to Israel because it had not recognised Jesus as the Messiah and the Son of God, but had been transferred to the Church of Jesus Christ which was now the true ‘new Israel’, the new chosen people of God. Arising from the same soil, Judaism and Christianity in the centuries after their separation became involved in a theological antagonism which was only to be defused at the Second Vatican Council. With its Declaration "Nostra aetate" (No.4) the Church unequivocally professes, within a new theological framework, the Jewish roots of Christianity. While affirming salvation through an explicit or even implicit faith in Christ, the Church does not question the continued love of God for the chosen people of Israel. A replacement or supersession theology which sets against one another two separate entities, a Church of the Gentiles and the rejected Synagogue whose place it takes, is deprived of its foundations. From an originally close relationship between Judaism and Christianity a long-term state of tension had developed, which has been gradually transformed after the Second Vatican Council into a constructive dialogue relationship.
Good thing we had Vatican II and this document to clear up the errors in the Church for hundreds of years since Christ! /s
(2)ALL of the promises f God to the Jewish people could not have been revoked, because, first, He said he could not do so:
( Numbers 23:20)
" See, I received a command to bless; he has blessed, and I cannot revoke it." And this is particularly clear in context, Numbers23:19-21, which rewards careful reading). And second, because some of those promises refer to things which will only happen at the End of the Age, for instance in the 7th chapter of Revelation:
"And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the people of Israel:
From the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed.
The is part of what we mean by "How inscrutable are Your ways, O Lord!" And likewise part of what Jesus spoke of so mysteriously (Tagline)
And O - O -O !
Happy Third Day of the O Antiphons!
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