Posted on 11/10/2015 9:33:09 AM PST by Gamecock
Is this a question to somehow "prove" that the issues presented in the Scriptures are not true? If that is your intent, I am not playing...
IF TULIP is a correct theology, I ask simply ... how can I know I am one of the elect ?
And if I CAN know, when do I know it ?
So you believe in unlimited atonement, which means that all are saved?
Correct. But only the elect have the will to come. The problem is not the will, it is nature. The sinful man does not will to follow God, only those whose nature has been changed by the Holy Spirit will come.
So do you believe in unlimited atonement, meaning that all are saved?
So because I willed in 1981 I am an elect ?
I don't know well enough to answer that, but God does!
You’re not part of the equation
The same way Paul did. If you disagree with being an Arminian, please enlighten us as to your persuasion. A middle ground? And, "...if you have the Son, you have the life." John.
This is significant slander. JWs believe they will get into heaven by their own merits. Reformed believers confess that we are not saved by any of our merits, or by the free determination of our will, but by the grace of God alone. There is no room for boasting here of any kind, and it is entirely biblical:
"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." (Rom 9:6-16)
"But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." (Joh 6:64-65)
"Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." (Joh 8:43-47)
Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
If you rely on Jesus and Jesus alone for your salvation, you are elect.
The non-elect have no desire to come to Jesus.
Unlimited atonement does not mean all are saved. It means all are offered salvation.
1 Timothy 2:4 [God our Savior] desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord ... is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
As we live in time, it is difficult to understand God who it not constrained by time. Human reasoning fails.
I know that I am saved because I have heard God's word and believed.
How do you know if you are saved? With the theory of limited atonement you run into a problem as you can never be sure if Christ died for you. You can not share the gospel with assurance. You can only tell someone that Christ died for them if God chose them for salvation.
Reading the parables of Jesus, you can plainly see that limited atonement is foolishness. All were invited to the wedding. The seed was cast everywhere.
With the seed specifically, the good news would be a lie if Jesus didn't die for everyone.
John 1:29b Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
The reasoning of limited atonement is foolish. From some website "If Jesus actually stood in my place and bore my sin on the cross as the Bible teaches, then I can never be punished for that sin." Wrong. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life.
The website continues, "In order for Christ's atonement to truly be a substitutionary or vicarious atonement, then it must actually secure a real salvation for all for whom Christ died." Wrong again. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
And more, "If Christ acted as a real and true substitute for those for whom He died, then all for whom He died will be saved." Wrong, wrong, wrong. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
And finally, "To say that Christ died a vicarious death in the place of all sinners but that not all sinners will be saved is a contradiction." Still wrong. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that if Jesus dies for you, then you are saved. You are letting your human reasoning get in the way. let the one who desires take the water of life without price
So, if the offer is made, and it is up to man to choose or not to choose, then there is no hope in salvation, as one could change their choice.
If my salvation is up to God, then I have assurance.
Besides, the ones who believe are those chosen by God.
Finally, your interpretation makes the atonement only effective for those who believe as well. Otherwise, all would be saved.
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