Posted on 11/04/2015 7:52:58 AM PST by BlatherNaut
...It's now clear that the Eugenio Scalfari interviews in the anticlerical La Repubblica are actually an important part of Bergoglio's controlled demolition of the Church. In the interviews all sorts of heresies are proclaimed, as befits a South American Jesuit who came of age in the late twentieth-century: Indifferentism (proselytism is solemn nonsense), relativism (what really matters is that we all journey towards our own conceptions of the good) annihilationism or universalism (there is no hell), Kasperism (doctrine should bend to practicality) and so on.
Bergoglio knows the message that he believes these things, and thus that they are now quasi-official teachings of the Church, will get out, not because everyone reads Scalfari, but because his words will gradually filter down to the bishops, priests and Catholic masses through secondary articles, headlines and the like. And they will be, as it were, implemented, just as surely as if that kissing priest had written an encyclical for him.
Is Bergoglio worried about opposition? Sure. But telegraphing his thoughts through Scalfari gives him a certain protection. There will always be someone--even the official Vatican spokesman--who will imply (though never actually say) that these are not really Bergoglio's thoughts...
(Excerpt) Read more at mahoundsparadise.blogspot.com ...
Blah, blah, pope’s the anichrist, blah, blah.
What has changed in the Church? Name it?
The pope’s comments, if true, would be absolutely shocking. They depict a notion of “family” which adapts to societal changes, rather than one, as St. John Paul II, which enrobes informs the flesh of the sort of divine love that permeates the trinity and which the trinity has for man. (Sorry if my wording is problematic.)
That said, opposition to “proselytism” is not the heresy of indifferentism. Catholics see “proselytism” as in contrast to “evangelisation,” where “proselytism” means forcing conversions or at least “poaching” through negative preaching, as opposed to “evangelization” which is centered on loving the person who converts.
Likewise, praying that Hell might be empty is neither annaihilationism nor universalism, so long as the prayer is done with the mindset that our prayers are not to oppose the mind or will of God, nor encompass the sin of presumption. I believe many people like Pope Francis who were raised before Vatican II overly presuppose that everyone understands that presumption is a sin, and this presents a grave spiritual threat, further that translating “pro multi” as “for all” actually misleads people towards the heresy of universalism. But I don’t believe that Pope Francis (who endorsed the new translations of the mass which corrected the “pro multi” error) intends to preach annaihilation, universalism or presumption.
Thanks-— worth thinking about.
Francis seems to be attempting to play a double game. Repeatedly using Scalfari as his unofficial spokesman provides plausible deniability. Francis unofficially serves up heresy via Scalfari, whereupon his official spokesmen dutifully invoke Scalfari’s supposed unreliability or point out the unofficial nature of the exchanges between Francis and Scalfari. Rinse, repeat.
E.g.:
“About that Pope Francis ‘interview’ where he denied the existence of Hell”
“...The most recent interview, published March 15, is no exception. In it Scalfari has the pope denying hell. The article says: “What happens to that lost soul? Will it be punished? And how? The response of Francis is distinct and clear: there is no punishment, but the annihilation of that soul. All the others will participate in the beatitude of living in the presence of the Father. The souls that are annihilated will not take part in that banquet; with the death of the body their journey is finished.”...”
Jesus Christ talked about Hell quite often. And He never implied Hell was empty; rather, He said many souls would go there.
To hope and imply that Christ was mistaken is heresy.
To hold the opinion that Hell is empty is heresy. To pray that no-one goes there is mercy. To believe that no-one goes there is heresy and the sin of presumption.
Likewise, praying that Hell might be empty is neither annaihilationism nor universalism, so long as the prayer is done with the mindset that our prayers are not to oppose the mind or will of God, nor encompass the sin of presumption.
"We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere "to the end" and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. In hope, the Church prays for "all men to be saved."
Although none of us are Universalists, and we all realize that hell is a hot possibility for any of us, I reckon that all three of us pray every day that all should be saved. because:
"...this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim 2:3-4 Douay-Rheims)
and we pray,
"Thy will be done."
November is the month for the Holy Souls in Purgatory. Let’s pray for those souls, rather than question Christ’s word’s that Hell is not occupied by many. Hell has a purpose, otherwise God would not have created it.
It does not imply that there are no souls in hell, or that we ourselves will not be damned if we intentionally and unrepentantly do some damnable thing.
I do not pray for souls already in Hell. I will not ignore Jesus Christ's words of eternal damnation.
Who am I to question Him?
And Francis is outright wrong; those damned souls are not annihilated.
The Baltimore Catechism:
Q. 1378. What are the rewards or punishments appointed for men’s souls after the Particular Judgment?
A. The rewards or punishments appointed for men’s souls after the Particular Judgment are Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell.
Q. 1379. What is Hell?
A. Hell is a state to which the wicked are condemned, and in which they are deprived of the sight of God for all eternity, and are in dreadful torments.
Q. 1380. Will the damned suffer in both mind and body?
A. The damned will suffer in both mind and body, because both mind and body had a share in their sins. The mind suffers the “pain of loss” in which it is tortured by the thought of having lost God forever, and the body suffers the “pain of sense” by which it is tortured in all its members and senses.
Thank you. I use the Baltimre Catechism as a resource for my RCIA students.
That is why the Catholic Church, in her wisdom, canonizes, but She does not demonize. We cannot be morally certain that even Josef Stalin or Margaret Sanger are in hell, although they did many hell-bent, damnable things. We don't know how God dealt with them in the last moments of their lives, and He alone can judge.
All Souls Day is devoted only to the Holy Souls in Purgatory. It’s not for all souls still living or those who have died and are in Hell.
I wish more people could comprehend that.
I never said or implied it was for souls in Hell.
To disbelieve that there are none who reject God utterly. Is like disbelieving that that there are natural evils.
Right. To believe that Hell is empty is heresy. To pray that no soul enter it is an extraordinary hope.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.