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To: imardmd1

Greek syntax? Lol, I am sure the Greek Catholics understood Greek better than you.
1 Peter 3 needs no interpretation, it flatly states baptism does now save us.

The comment about physically dying shows a total lack of understanding of the historical Faith. In baptism, we are placed in Christ. Christ died for our sins, and He will never die again. All those in Christ therefore will never die spiritually.

You can attack the Church Fathers all you want, but isn’t strange that after the Apostles died, the universal faith believed by those all thru the world bears absolutely no resemblance to the strange doctrines and beliefs you hold.


326 posted on 10/12/2015 9:45:09 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
(1)Greek syntax: I am quite sure they that wrote in the Scriptures that Peter was not talking about the baptism causing salvation of infants or unbelievers by dripping water on them, so your understanding is out.

Re Noah: Are you trying to tell me that Noah was not saved before he passed through the Flood (essentially without getting wet)? What Peter's Torah said, as translated into English is:

"But Noah found favour in the eyes of Jehovah.
This is the history of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect
amongst his generations: Noah walked with God" (Gen. 6:8-9 AV).

Noah walked with God, and the only way for two to walk together is if they agree. Noah daily agreed with=homologehoh=confessed his errors whenever they occurred, and his shortcomings were instantly forgiven and forgotten by JHVH and cleansed of unrighteousness. Noah was just; that is, saved by faith in the ever-present JHVH, justified, and sanctified more than a hundred years before he passed through the Flood event without getting wet, during which time JHVH kept on saving him, as He not only brings security of salvation to the regenerated believer, but from then on keeps on saving that believer into eternity.

(2) The word "figure" properly translated with greater detail of meaning is αντιτυπον = antitype, in which figure the medium of baptism is not water, the mode is not "preserved from contact with" but rather "totally immersed in," and the sense is not literal in the earthly world, but literal in the sphere of the Spirit.

It is baptism in the Spirit that marks and effects our salvation from the consequences of sin. The verb "save" is here in the present tense, active voice, indicative mode, third person singular. The sense is not something happening only once (punctiliar uses the aorist tense) but persistent (which is the feature of the present tense here). This baptism is one that keeps on saving, not one that happens once without further effect. So this phrase cannot describe a one-time external application of moisture, whatever the form. Nor does it project the sense of the perfect tense, of an event happening once but with ongoing effects.

So, in this, what is straightforward to the Hellenistic mind totally escapes your comprehension as you misinterpret what the ambiguity of the English translation presents you, and your interpretation is wrong,

(But note that participation in the Disciples Vaptism by water immersion, as uniformly practiced by the Apostles, can be a contributive act in the ongoing salvation in the sanctification of the believer, for which "(water) baptism saves" in the aorist is not a term amiss.)

One of the things this doctrine means is that a priest's wetted fingers placed on a baby's head and pronouncing the titles of the members of The Godhead does not save that baby from Hellfire, no matter what you insist. And there is no place in Scripture that backs up your conception or your contention that salvation is by water baptism.

(3) Regarding the Patristics, they had no other or greater authority than today's believers have, and that is the Written Word alone verbally inspired by the Holy Spirit, plenary in compass of its sphere of authority, preserved throughout the ages by JHVH, and translated by faithful servants of God into languages such that God's plan of salvation can be preached and souls convicted and surrendering to it can be saved by the promise of God:

"And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia,
and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene,
and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works
of God" (Acts 2:8-11 AV) AV).

I am glad I can go out, knowing from the Holy Scriptures that salvation is by faith, and not by baptism.

327 posted on 10/13/2015 3:28:00 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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