FYI, thought you might be interested in this...
As a preface, thought I’d mention that all I care about is the truth through the Holy Spirit teaching me (including the Holy Spirit using someone like my pastor or someone else to teach me - but one needs discernment as to whether it is of man or of God). I don’t want any “pet doctrines” of my own nor do I care for the commandments of men taught as doctrine.
Having said that, and having questioned the assertion that “The Apostolic age passed with the death of Beloved John...”, I was doing my regular Bible reading the other day and happened to be reading in Chapter 21 of the Book of Revelation describing the New Jerusalem when I read this...
“And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb” Revelation 21:14.
It even goes on to describe how each of the twelve foundations were garnished with its own individual precious stone. So I thought, “Here the Bible seems to be telling me that throughout all eternity, only twelve apostles are recognized and memorialized” (what an incredible honor to have been chosen as a apostle).
So here, I see scriptural support for the “Age of the apostles” ending after the last apostle, apparently John, died. The Bible also says in Ephesians 2:20 that the church is built upon the foundation of the apostles, so it makes sense that once the foundation is built, apostles are no longer needed.
(Interestingly, the same passage in Ephesians says that the foundation also consists of prophets, but there’s nothing that I know of that says there were only twelve prophets and in fact prophecy is declared to be an on-going ministry and gift of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:10). Note there’s no gift of “apostleship” mentioned in 1 Cor 12:10.)
Now this also raises another issue about the Acts 1 situation and our friend Matthias. If there are only twelve apostles called to be the foundation of the church, then Peter and others had/have a problem because of Paul. Here is an interesting passage of scripture:
“Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)” Galatians 1:1.
It is interesting that Paul goes out of his way to say that apostles are not chosen by man, but by Jesus Christ, as he did the first twelve, Judas Iscariot needing to be replaced.
So, putting it altogether, it would seem that that are only twelve apostles and if so, on the basis of heavy support of Scripture, it was Paul, not Matthias, who was the twelfth apostle as the replacement for Judas. I wouldn’t call this “doctrine” as it is certainly not central to our sonship in Christ, but it would seem scripturally a well-supported viewpoint, and something, I think, we can learn from.
You know, this brings up something else that I find delightful. How did Jesus teach much of the time and how is the majority of the New Testament taught? By conversations. I believe the Lord uses faith-filled conversation to open up issues and teach those of us who are teachable. I believe this will probably go on for eternity. (Scripture tells us, “that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of his grace in His kindness toward us through Jesus Christ” (Eph 2: 7). We don’t stop learning even after we’re in Heaven.
God bless.
It's always encouraging to see more light and less heat.
I think if you go back in this thread you will see some helpful discussions in Posts 15 and 23 sent to you, and in Posts 21, 25, and 27 sent to others. It's possible you might find some things there that didn't come to your attention previously.
Regarding prophecy, you said:
. . . in fact prophecy is declared to be an on-going ministry and gift of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:10) . . .
There was a period of supernatural--but passing--spiritual gifts that were still being exercised while Paul's letters were being written, before the canon of New Testament Scripture was closed. The spiritual gifts of I Cor. 12:8-11 are no longer in the repertoire of God's servants, and their termination is discussed in 1 Cor. 13:8-10. "That which is perfect (complete)" is the canon of the ew Testament, and there has been no continuation of God's progressive revelation of Biblical truths since the death of the Apostle John. He was the last prophet, one of those to whom Jehovah spoke and showed heavenly things to be written down as inspired Holy Scripture. The "prophecy" of today is only forth-telling, or preaching, of God's Word, not any longer fore-telling.
Regarding the imparting of the Culture of Christ by personal instruction:
How did Jesus teach much of the time and how is the majority of the New Testament taught? By conversations.
That is called discipling, and there's not much of it going on today. The broadly preferred and practiced method is public hortation by Bible school and/or seminary graduates amassing groups (larger than, say, 1-12) for a one-way delivery system with very little detailed personal response and accountability.
Of late, a few are beginning to wake up to the dearth of real personal ongoing interactive discipleship, and fewer yet have a demonstrated Biblically valis method to teach how to make disciples and personally istruct them.
This is not a do-it-yourself boot-strap model. Rather, it is the one put in practice by God in Christ for about three and a half years, still being (rarely) practiced today.
You might want to check out the paragraph on
"HELP FOR DISCIPLES MAKING DISCIPLES" (about half-way down the page)
and