Posted on 07/26/2015 8:55:19 AM PDT by MHGinTN
Here is yet more information, for those who miss the Rapture and are here after the event. This is for people, not any particular congregation of people. Please, think about it ...
I found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQPvx56dksw
Yeah cause He made that whole Pre, mid, or post thing really really clear./SARC
You seem happiest when making sarcastic comments. What a joy you are in any discussion!
That’s 13-14 letters of the NT you’re calling into question, as well as a God-given apostleship. We all have weird theories, but that one isn’t harmless like so many others. Find a harmless one (or two...or three, lol).
Jesus said in plain words that if you have a matter against another you should go to him alone.
You can read in Mathew 18 :15 through 18 to see for your self what Jesus said.
You say theory? no, theory has nothing to do with it.
People are calling Peter a hypocrite just because of Pauls accusation.
but that one isn’t harmless like so many others. >>>>>>>>>>>
What Paul wrote to the Galatians was not harmless to Peter, in fact people still use it to day to put Peter down, which is what got this issue started.
Maybe Paul did not really know who his friends were as his friends in Asia departed from him and obviously did not think of him as an apostle.
1 Corinthians 9:2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet
doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship
are ye in the Lord.
2 Tim 1
15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me
Revelation 2
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Ephesus was in Asia was it not?
Pretty obvious that it was the ones in Asia especially Ephesus who did not believe Paul was an apostle.
You can think of this as theory if you like but
Peter was the only apostle who mentioned Paul in his epistles and recognized him as a brother, can any one truly believe that God would inspire a man to slander the only brother who had a good word for him?
Peter is the only friend we can know by reading scripture that Paul had.
Did not.
“Get thee behind me, _____”
That event is clearly the same second coming everyone else was expecting, because it happens at the last trump, exactly when John tells us the second coming occurs in Revelation.
WE were doing the surveying to build the system from 80-85.
I think the first cell phone I had was in 82, before that we used marine phones (stretching the legal limit often).
The Bible doesn’t always call him by that name. The “antichrist”, the “beast”, the “man of perdition”, “the wicked one”, those names are all synonymous.
Gal 2:Paul Opposes Cephas11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.[ Paul is telling us right there why it was important for him to stand against the split starting to occur with this once again spearating themselves from the Gentiles ... Peter of all men should have known better, having been given the vision which allowed him to go into the Gentile House of Cornelius, to share the Gospel of Grace. The Church that Jesus established, the spiritual Church, has no distinctions between Jew and Gentile. All are reconciled by Grace alone, not of any works as the Judaisers were trying to inveigle the Gospel.]
19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
What Peter and other Jewish converts were doing was sliding back into the exclusivity of Judaism, with the misapplied works under the law. We see the same error in cahtolicism today. And we see what it is doing, so we know in Paul's time it must have been pretty important to cut it off.
What you call out there is really sola no scripture!
Scripture is quite plain on when the First Resurrection takes place, as you know, having posted Matthew 24 yourself a few times.
It is the fear of experiencing what Yeshua promised we would experience (persecution, torture, death) that causes otherwise sensible believers to invent escape clauses.
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The purpose of the Rapture, theologically, is to remove the Spiritual Church of Jesus Christ which is founded in Grace alone, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Jews will be the salt during the Tribulation. If one does not believe God puts His Holy SPirit int he believer, then it is not difficult to dismiss the escape plan God has for The Spiritual Church of Jeuss Christ. If one cannot see that 2 Thess 2 speaks of the 'restrainer' of the lawlessness as the Holy Spirit, then it is not suprising that the whole reason for the Rapture escapes notice.
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>> “Well...if you’re a Christian you’ll be surprised then when it occurs.” <<
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Shouldn’t be!
Paul promised the Thessalonians that because they kept his appointed times, they would not be surprised.
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“Apply the notion of imminency to Matthew 24 of Mark 13. Won’t work....”
Yes, that was my point.
“... so either you throw out the dcotrine of imminency or refigure your persepctive. Imminency is taught clearly in scriptures.”
Not unconditionally, it isn’t, or there wouldn’t be any contradiction if you applied it to Matthew 24.
The Missler video is short. Give it a watch.
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>> “Well, duh, the Rapture IS what God designed as the escape” <<
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But he didn’t call it a ‘rapture,’ he called it a resurrection, and said that we would meet him “in the spirit” in a cloud, and that it would be the event that ended Satan’s tribulation of the saints.
He promised persecution, torture, and death from Satan’s people to us, and promised that we would not experience the Father’s wrath that would begin as we were resurrected in the spirit.
No escape is required, only belief of what he told us, and obedience. He will protect us in the place he will prepare in the desert, if we follow his commandments. That was what he stated to the Philadelphians in Revelation 3.
Or not! We can be like the rest of the churches, not watching, and he will come as a thief.
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If they do not believe there is a taking away of believers in the rapture... and are indeed Christians... they certainly will be surprised when it occurs.
As far as the harvests goes, I believe at the beginning of the reign of antiChrist, only 7000 believers will recognize him as Satan and not Jesus. I don't know what the rapturists are going to think about his arrival because they expected to disappear rather than witness Jesus' arrival, whom they mistake the antiChrist for. But I think he will have a message for everyone on earth. To the rapturists he will say "come with me, so you can avoid the tribulation". To the Islamists he will say "I am your Mahdi (or twelfth imam, or whatever)", to the liberals he will be the hippy-type of Jesus that they believed in in the 60s, and anyone who doesn't follow him is a right-wing, pro-money, war-monger. The asians will fall in line. Many of the 7000 will will be delivered up to the antiChrist to be "saved" by him and then God will speak through them at their trials. And also there will be a remnant that will broadcast the truth from a place of safety.
Many will be converted at this time and these will be the harvests. The antiChrist gets furious at the 7000 and the remnant and there will be Armageddon and Hamongog. At the Seventh Trump Jesus returns and we all will be harvested at once, good, bad, everyone, and the Millennium will begin, with us almost instantly in our spiritual bodies (no need to worry about planes falling out of the sky in this scenario). The 7000 will rule with Christ over the world, teaching those in the harvests if they didn't have an opportunity to learn in their flesh life, for the Millennium.
Have a nice day
I’ve studied both sides of the rapture debate and therefore read verses quoted in support of it and in opposition to it.
So far I have not found an answer to the question of why God would shorten the time of tribulation if the elect had already been taken up. If only unbelievers are left to endure the tribulation, why shorten it for the sake of the elect. If they’re in heaven, they’re unaffected by earthly matters.
Matthew 24:22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
Mark 13:20 If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.
You pinged me. Have you made the same comment to Elsie?
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