What to do if you missed the Rapture

Youtube ^ | July 15, 2015 | Ed Hinson

[MHGinTN]

Here is yet more information, for those who miss the Rapture and are here after the event. This is for people, not any particular congregation of people. Please, think about it ...

[MHGinTN]

The first elders of the true Church taught the foundations of Christian faith, and the Gospel of Jesus Chrsit, the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit. The imminent Rapture did not happen within the first sixty years following the crucifixion. It is not difficult to see why it would be laid aside in teaching the Gospel and the indwelling of God's Spirit. Israel as a nation was not more, so the imminency Jews expected --that Jesus would come and take out the church then come back in seven years and establish the throne of David. Without a Temple on the Temple Mount, without the land in Jewish possession, why would they want to hold to a notion which raised so many unanswerable questions for them.

But we are not in their position. Israel has been restored in miraculous fashion. Jerusalem is under Israeli control. The throne of David can now be restored with the Jews recalled to the land. There are many references to this passage in 1 Thess 4 and 2 Thess 2 and 1 Cor 15:51 found in the sermon records being retrieved from the earliest teachings right through to the time of Darby.

Frances Gumerlock, reading through five hundred volumes of the church fathers is said to have three file drawers full of pre-trib type writings. If you would like more data on the Pre-trib perspective, visit www.pre-trib.org

[MHGinTN]

Thank you, Mitch, for adding so much to the discussion. Some wise poster said, and I lifted it, “The truth never suffers when the light of study is shined on it.”

[mitch5501]

"The seven churches of Asia in the book of Revelation do not represent different ages since the words you quoted were written to the angel of the church of Philadelphia and not to the last church in the series."

However...the last church is spewed out of His mouth all the while believing it has everything all neatly wrapped up.That church is told to "buy gold tried in the fire".

Also...The church of Philadelphia has..."I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it..." (Rev 3:8)

The last church however has... "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock..."

The church that has "a little strength" has an open door,the church that thinks it has it all (and yet is poor,blind and naked!)has a shut door and must buy gold tried in the fire.

I think that door is the rapture.

[Iscool]

Imagine this carrot dangled in front of you while the stick is waiting to whack you in the head: no more easy meals or medicine (even OTC) or countless other comforts of civilization unless you adopt a particular technology.

It would be VERY hard to resist, assuming you even knew what the implications were.

Likely most Christians would not be able to resist the mark...

Watch your kids starve or take the mark...
Die of pneumonia or take the mark...
Freeze to death in the Northern States in winter or take the mark...
Have your head chopped off or take the mark...

Thank God we Christians won't have to make those choices...

Rev_3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

[Iscool]

Thank you so much for posting that Sermon from Doctor McGee. I have missed that voice. Used to listen to him on the radio as I drove the highways, decades ago!

Another light shining thru the darkness...

[caww]

First I do believe fully in the sanctity of the believer.....that's a settled matter....so as you mentioned .."Snooze you loose" doesn't fit my postion.

As for the seven churches.... Revelation does not include Colossae, Miletus, Hierapolis, or Magnesia.... The seven named are chosen ‘to symbolize the whole Church’...and do a fabulous work of denoting such. Therefore All believers learn and are able to see themselves in these 7 churches that represent the whole.

As for Dispensationalists or others who categorize themselves....I simply stand on what I know from scripture...I don't follow a certain popular or unpopular position though some have shared on FR my position leans toward Dispensationalist.....

[Bob434]

[[Sorry if this is harsh and upsetting to you, but that is what the word of God tells us.]]

Upsetting? No- just a difference of opinion is all

[[The age of grace ends with the First Resurrection, the event that ends the trib.]]

you’re welcome to your opinion on that matter

[[Obviously everyone alive on Earth will see the sky opened up to the realm of God, as the elect from day one to then are gathered by the angels,]]

there is some indication that only the elect at the rapture will see it and the world will not-

[[The trib has nothing to do with judgement; it is the wrath of Satan,]]

Again, you’re entitled to your opinion- I’ve laid out what pretrib believes- It is not Satan bringing the judgements upon the earth at that time, it is Christ who sends forth the riders

[[The wrath of God comes in the ten days after the resurrection of the just, the “Bowl Judgements.”]]

There is an argument to be made for that- but there is also an argument to be made for pretrib rapture- which as I’ve indicated in previousp osts I personally belewive there ism ore evidence to suggest pretrib-

I went to Word of Life bible college- a 1-2 year study of God’s word- strong Baptist leanings- We had some very good teachers- who at that time taught pretrib- one named Marv Rosenthol who now runs ‘Friends of Israel’ and “Israel My Glory” magazines

Marv turned from Pre trib to mid trib somewhere along the liens, and Word of Life dropped him as a teacher because of it- I thought it a bit extreme to drop him for that- but whatever- I studied everything Marv had to say about the mid trib issue, and felt he did a really good job making his case, and I could definitely see how he came to believe as he did- however, I still believe there is more scriptural evidence to sway the pendulum of the issue in the direction of pretrib

[[There is not one word in the entire Bible that tells us that anyone can be saved during the millennial reign.]]

Revelations talks about John looking into heaven and seeing the ‘great multitude of people’ those believed to be folks saved and killed during tribulation times as for the millennium

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS” (Jeremiah 23:5-6). “

The bible also talks about the millennial kingdom being ruled By Christ with an iron rod so that ALL may live in peace during that time- this indicates there will be unsaved during this reign- As for the saved, they will procreate during that time, and their offspring will be unsaved and in need of salvation- it seems unreasonable that God wouldn’t allow them to be saved alongside their parents

Some believe the millenium will made up entirely of saved people- however, scripture is pretty clear- there will be unsaved- those Satan enlists for one last attempted takeover- IF there are only saved people in millennium, then the unsaved must come from the saved people’s procreation- However, I believe unsaved people will be around at the beginning because of the verses talking about Christ ruling with iron rod to make everything safe-

Any way- As I mentioned there are cogent arguments for both positions- no reason why we have to say things like “Sorry if this is harsh and upsetting to you,” It’s an area where we can agree to disagree civilly I hope- As I said- I’ve studied both positions- seen many good arguments for both sides, and I personally believe the evidence ways more heavily on the side of pretrib rapture- IF pretrib rapture turns out to not be the case, oh well- We’ll have more to occupy our times at that point than arguments about different interpretations of prophecy

[Iscool]

Though there will be many martyrs, Paul says there will be "...those that alive and remain," who will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, 1 Thess. 4.

Naw, that's prior to the Tribulation...That's the Rapture...

Jesus says the same, some will persevere in their faith to their eschatological salvation at the end, "He that endureth unto the end, the same shall be saved," Matt. 24:13.

Those are Jews during the Tribulation...The church is gone...(Rom 11)

[caww]

Excellent...

[Iscool]

If so, where do you find the statement in the Bible saying this? We know Jesus made no such statement in Matt. 24, where did Paul say such? Though Paul spoke of the catching away (the rapture)in 1 Thess. 4, he said nothing about this being before the tribulation, nor there being two events, a two stage affair.

Rev. 19...Rev 19 takes place during the Tribulation...The church (the Bride) is in heaven getting married...

The church goes up...The Wedding takes place...Jesus and the Bride return at the 2nd coming...

[Iscool]

I cannot find any orchestra described. Revelation records the action for seven trumps. Paul says what will happen at the last trump to flesh.

Don't know what to tell ya man...I can only repeat what God has given us in the scriptures...

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

[Bob434]

[[All of God’s wrath comes after the last trump.]]

You missed what I said I guess- there is nowhere in Gods’ word that states all wrath comes after the seals- only that ‘ the day of God’s wrath” comes after the trib-

[[The Seals are the progression of human events from the close of the apostolic age at the death of John, to the last trump.]]

They are carried but by man yes- BUT it is God who for instance takes peace from them so that they turn on one another and butcher one another- the likes of which have not been seen before-

Right now, The restrainer is restraining the evil- This is the mercy of God- otherwise this world would be complete chaos- When God/Christ bring the judgments the restrainer will no longer restrain and evil will destroy it’s own and those who are saved during that time (Who are the ‘multitudes’ that John apparently sees when he lifts his eyes to heaven)-

Famine and plagues are not man’s doing- (although man can make them worse by neglecting ground conditions- but the famines will be worldwide- supernatural- just as they were in biblical times)

[[If there is wrath in the seals, it is man’s wrath.]]

Sure, man will be full of wrath- But God is bringing judgment upon the godless- upon His enemies at this time as well, and He is doing so through His Son who breaks the seals- and lets the wrath of judgment have it’s way on a wicked world

[[The purpose of the seals is to break Satan’s power on the Earth, one step at a time.]]

I disagree that it is simply about the single purpose of breaking Satan, simply because it is multitudes of wicked people who are killed during this time- God has had enough- their time is up- They were given plenty of time to Accept Christ- they chose not to, and they are now going to suffer the consequences of their decision

[Bob434]

[[Try reading the 2nd coming passages in the NT as if there was only one return (see Biggirl’s post 161), it is quite an eye opener.]]

The rapture isn’t a ‘return’ We are caught up to meet Him In the clouds- His return is when He comes to reign in the millennium

[[After this, the notion that there was a coming in addition to the one after the tribulation never entered any of the NT writers minds.]]

John speaks about the millennial reign of Christ- Issaih spoke of it, Zachariah did, The millennial reign comes after the rapture- whether you believe the rapture occurs, pre-mid-or post trib - the bible is clear that a rapture happens pre millennial reign

[Semper Mark]

I always liked ole J Vernon.

J. Vernon McGee doesn't know it yet, but he was the instrument the Holy Spirit used to lead me to Christ.

I'll tell him about it in heaven.

[caww]

In a time when we are getting close to the Rapture hoped of we find many abandoning the idea it can happen. The idea of the Lord returning to remove His saints from the earth is to kingdom ‘reconstructionists’ and ‘dominionists’ a retreating and defeatist attitude.

While many propose the idea that the Church will be preserved through the tribulation just as Israel was preserved in Egypt through the plagues, there are several flaws in this....

.... Israel all lived in a separate area in Egypt, Goshen, which was given to only the Israelites. Revelation tells us that the believers everywhere are to be overcome by the beast, and lose their lives being killed in the tribulation; they are not supernaturally protected (except for the 144,000 who we are told will be supernaturally protected).

One can look at chapters 6-7,11-14,17-18 and see the saints are consistently being killed. There is no safety for the saints IN THE TRIBULATION. This is not to say that some will survive, we know they do as they are the sheep who are in the judgement at the end of the tribulation in Mt.25

Jehovah’s Witnesses deny the Rapture and say that there will be only 144,000 in heaven and they will get there by death..... Catholic church does not hold a position of the church being taken to heaven but are for the most part Amillennialist....... The 7th Day Adventists deny a rapture that has anyone go to heaven (even when they die, they believe you soul sleeps as you body does)......... Some deny a rapture for no reason except to deny what the Scripture says as a promise and uphold their own belief;..... others have a more purposeful reason to do this..they want to promote a new view because they have decided the old view is hindering us from doing God’s work, they have an agenda to promote.

As you know....the rapture is a promise from Jesus to take us to where He is; it is not a deception it is promise....John 14

Still some even see the Church in the end times as rising up and become a militant miracle working army taking over the land.... It is already beginning. From what I have read in their teachings, there are many who desire to be in leaders in God’s new government on earth.... Not all have these wrong motives, but they have adopted a wrong belief that can change their motives and certainly their view of end time events.

(from Let us reason)

[Partisan Gunslinger]

“The ones taken by Rapture Doctrine will be taken by Satan” Um, I am curious. How does that work? How does a Christian believing in the Rapture get taken by Satan since Salvation is eternal life from God by the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer? I’m curious ...

Satan will come pretending to be Jesus saying he's come to take you out of here before the real trouble starts. People will fall for it, and even deliver their family members to death, which is the devil, Satan, thinking he is Jesus.

[Mark17]

I don't follow a certain popular or unpopular position though some have shared on FR my position leans toward Dispensationalist

I think mine does too, but I am not hyper dogmatic about it, anymore than I am dogmatic about what I think concerning Genesis 6, even though I have my own opinion about it. There is one thing, however, that I am completely, extremely, totally, absolutely 100% dogmatic on, that I am NOT willing to remotely compromise on, in any way, shape or form. That is the plan of salvation, by faith alone. I would suspect you are just a little dogmatic about that too. 😂😇😎

[caww]

There are several ways the rapture/ resurrection can take place that’s fun to consider I think...

One is to make it evident to the whole world; that everyone would become aware it took place. The Holy Spirit does not specifically teach us what this event will be like exactly, it may very well be a loud announced event and it may not.

The trumpet sound and a shout indicates an official “announcement.” God often introduced things with a “voice” from heaven: the Law from Mt. Sinai, the sound was deafening like a trumpet. The Father speaking to Jesus at His baptism, and on the Mount of Transfiguration. But it does not mean all will hear it. It may mean only those who are summoned will hear, or it may be quiet with the announcement taking place in heaven, we are not specifically told in Scripture.

The other way is that this event would be done secretly where no one would notice. Such as in the middle of a cataclysmic event, such as in a world war. This could make the event hidden from the world, millions would not be noticed missing because there would be more serious issues at hand. Then a deception could set in as various explanations are offered.

Many have considered that if it is a known event this would cause fear, and some would come to the realization that what the Bible has said is true. If cars or airplanes crash all over the world because the drivers are missing it would certainly be major news. They then would have to come up with an alternate explanation to make sense out of why millions of people are missing.....

.... The media could have dozens of explanations to choose from, but they would all have to be more convincing than the Bibles explanation. Especially if there is a consistency in those who are missing are all Christians. the New age already has the explanation that mankind is going to make a quantum leap in consciousness, creating a new species: Homonoeticus. That UFO’s will remove the people who have a lower consciousness, which according tho them are Christians.

Even if it were to occur this way it may not make such an impact. The church is made up of individuals collectively, the event of the rapture of the church is relative to everyone in the church at the same time. The news reports that there are 30,000 people a year missing in the US and we do not blink an eye, I don’t think several million spread around the world will bring great concern. (I’m not of the opinion that it will be several hundred million people such as 600-900 million or a billion)

There is another explanation of how millions could be missing and it may not leave an impact on those left. Why? Because of the apostasy, it will be in a time where the majority of Christians are no longer looking for Him to come. Their focus will be on the things of the world or they will be too busy building what they believe is his kingdom, readying it for him to come back sometime in the future. So in a time while the world is being so called christianized this could take place. The fact is, a minority will be taken not the majority that claim to be the church.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

bump

[caww]

I’m not big on placing my positions in compartments of one thing or another.......but I get that most Christians do fall or lean one way or another and some of both.