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To: RnMomof7
"Supreme norm" and "sole norm" are not the same thing. The author is dishonest in pretending that they are.

As a Catholic, I have absolutely no problem in endorsing Scripture as the supreme norm of the faith. Calling Scripture the "sole norm" violates Scripture itself. Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead the church to "all truth". He never promised that it would be exhaustively written down in a book which would require no further authoritative interpretation.

3 posted on 06/15/2015 6:37:08 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Campion

So, by what means does the Catholic church determine what truth is that it claims is outside the purview of Scripture?

How do they know if they’re being led by the Holy Spirit?

Get a warm, fuzzy feeling?

Form a committee and vote on it?


6 posted on 06/15/2015 6:59:00 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Campion

” As a Catholic, I have absolutely no problem in endorsing Scripture as the supreme norm of the faith. Calling Scripture the “sole norm” violates Scripture itself. “

Some response.

Sola Scriptura doesn’t make the Scriptures the only source. It declares it is the ultimate source of authority to which every other must answer. Every doctrine is judged by the single standard, does the Scripture teach it. If not, it is manmade.

“Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead the church to “all truth”.

It was a promise to believers and not to a church. Still, the promise was fulfilled as the Holy Spirit inspired the New Testament Scriptures. He continues to live inside each believer and speak to his or her heart.

“He never promised that it would be exhaustively written down in a book which would require no further authoritative interpretation. “

He gave to the church the spiritual gift of teachers for this purpose.

Nowhere did Christ promise that there would be one authority perched in Rome, nor just one gathering.


9 posted on 06/15/2015 7:31:54 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( "Forward lies the crown, and onward is the goal.")
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To: Campion

Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead the church to “all truth”.


Indeed He did!

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 16:12-15 KJV


12 posted on 06/15/2015 7:36:16 PM PDT by rwa265
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To: Campion; RnMomof7
>>He never promised that it would be exhaustively written down in a book which would require no further authoritative interpretation.<<

1 Corinthians 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

43 posted on 06/16/2015 7:08:26 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Campion; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; ...
As a Catholic, I have absolutely no problem in endorsing Scripture as the supreme norm of the faith. Calling Scripture the "sole norm" violates Scripture itself. Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead the church to "all truth". He never promised that it would be exhaustively written down in a book which would require no further authoritative interpretation.

You must indeed have a problem in endorsing Scripture as the supreme norm of faith if you are a faithful RC. For RC teaching is that you cannot even assuredly know what Scripture teaches and means apart from her. And if Scripture only assuredly consists of and means what she says, and if church law is supreme (as per papal teaching), then she is effectively the supreme authority.

And thus a faithful RC is not to ascertain the veracity of RC teaching by examination of evidences (for that reason). For to do so would be to doubt the claims of Rome to be the assuredly infallible magisterium by which a RC obtains assurance of Truth

Calling Scripture the "sole norm" violates Scripture itself. Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead the church to "all truth".

That is one of the strawmen that article denies, as SS affrims the illumination of the Spirit (and as continuationist SS believers affirm, for prophetic gifts), as well as reason,the light of nature, the teaching office and its products, synods, etc.

Cp. VI: ...we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word: and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature , and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed. hat “not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.” — http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/wcf.htm

It belongs to synods and councils, ministerially to determine controversies of faith, and cases of conscience; to set down rules and directions for the better ordering of the public worship of God, and government of his Church; to receive complaints in cases of maladministration, and authoritatively to determine the same..." — http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/wcf.htm

But Scripture is the sole supreme standard as the wholly inspired word of God is what Scripture reveals, though SS does not hold that was always the case (nor was there a church and sola ecclesia). But whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required.

Not even ‎Ex cathedra statements can claim to be wholly inspired of God, nor does Rome claim to provide new revelation, and all truth claims (as prophecy) are subject to testing by the Scriptures.

Texts such as 2 Thessalonians 2:15 can refer to enjoining obedience to to oral preaching Scriptural truths, which an SS can do, or to wholly inspired preaching of the word of God, including new revelation, which Rome does not claim to do.

He never promised that it would be exhaustively written down in a book which would require no further authoritative interpretation.

Actually, the Lord and NT church established their Truth claims upon Scriptural substantiation in word and in power, and His Spirit inspired the writing of both the OT and NT. It was not tradition that the Lord rebuked the devil with, nor the Pharisees, nor substantiated His mission by and opened up the minds of the disciples to.

Nor did the Lord promise that all that He did would be exhaustively taught in this life, orally or by writing (leading into all Truth will continue into the next life), but consistent with what is needful being written, John says,

And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (John 20:30-31)

Thus to argue as if the Lord did not command what is needful for faith and growth toward perfection - which formally provides for salvation (so that one may read and believe a text as Acts 10:36-43 and be born again), and materially provides for the guidance of the Spirit, and the church, and magisterial office, etc. - is untenable

121 posted on 06/16/2015 7:28:40 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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