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To: CynicalBear

Want to compare the number of verses that say it’s faith rather than works to the ones that the Catholic Church uses to say otherwise?


No, because I don`t know what scriptures the Catholics use for that purpose.

But I know what Jesus said about it and one scripture by him is worth more than all of them said by any one else to supposedly contradict what he said.

Mathew 25
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.


180 posted on 06/16/2015 6:13:26 AM PDT by ravenwolf (t)
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To: ravenwolf
>>But I know what Jesus said about it and one scripture by him is worth more than all of them said by any one else to supposedly contradict what he said.<<

So you don't believe all of scripture is really the words of the Holy Spirit as He inspired the apostles to write? Need I remind you that even the words of Jesus were written by the apostles years after Jesus had ascended into heaven? I would suggest to you that casting doubt on any of the words of scripture is dangerous business.

As to your reference to Matthew 25 the "works" that the righteous did were works rendered AFTER their salvation. Those works were only evidence of their faith. Any other interpretation makes Paul a liar.

181 posted on 06/16/2015 6:39:45 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: ravenwolf
compare the number of verses that say it’s faith rather than works to the ones that the Catholic Church uses to say otherwise

You ALMOST have the right idea there. But not quite. You are supposed to compare scripture to scripture. You aren't supposed to count verses [but 2 Peter 1:20 does give you a warning about hanging all your laundry on just one hook.]

What Jesus was talking about was the "fruit" not the "root" of their salvation. It's a vital point. I use the word "vital" purposefully because it is a matter of life or death for you.

The "good works" are not the justification for their entrance into the kingdom, but instead, evidence of God's grace in their lives. They are the objective criteria for judgment, because they are the evidence of saving faith.

If you compare scripture with scripture, you will find no contradictions. Here, Jesus is not contradicting what He says elsewhere (through inspiration) when Paul, or Peter, or James (or any other writer writes.)

John 1:14 - Jesus is the Word
2 Tim 3:16 - All Scripture is "God-breathed" (given by inspiration)

.

You say, I don`t know what scriptures the Catholics use to support works-based salvation (my words at the end there). Maybe you should! Otherwise, maybe you should take it upon yourself to study God's Word. See what it says for itself. Learn to "rightly divide" what it says (2 Tim 2:15) so that you can "present yourself approved by God."

That's a good thing: "approved by God."

Right?

183 posted on 06/16/2015 7:29:55 AM PDT by kinsman redeemer (The real enemy seeks to devour what is good.)
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To: ravenwolf

That does not say that one is saved by works does it?

It is describing the work of the SHEEP.

The Sheep were not ever GOATS. the Goats never behaved like sheep

This was the final judgment of rewards , not salvation .

Mat 16:27”For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father, with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”

Luke 14:14”For thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.”

Rev 22:12”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”

1Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.”

The Goats are condemned , not because they did not work, but because they had never repented and believed

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 4:5  But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

They were not sheep because they did the work that God had ordained for them, they did the work because they were the sheep.

Gal. 2:16: “[T]hat we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified

Here Jesus teaching on salvation by works

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The will of the Father is that men believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved...

Hear Jesus

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


191 posted on 06/16/2015 8:20:35 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: ravenwolf; CynicalBear; MHGinTN
Let me suggest that you take care with citing of Mt. 25:31-45 for any doctrinal purpose. This selection is not about individual persons, it is not about faith, it is not about salvation, and it is not even about the operation of Christ's church.

This prophecy is set in the time subsequent to the seven years of tribulation when Lord Jesus returns from Heaven to set up His millennial Kingdom on the Earth, at the beginning of His reign. One of the first things He does is to judge the behavior of the Gentile nations as political and geographical identities as to how they dealt with His brethren, the remnant Jewish bloc tasked with conversion of Gentiles in the absence of Himself and His Church Bride snatched away, during the Tribulation.

The context is the eschatology of Matthew 24-25, and has no bearing on the issue of personal works, faith, or salvation.

248 posted on 06/16/2015 6:03:57 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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