Posted on 06/11/2015 8:19:28 AM PDT by RnMomof7
John 6: 6326 Jesus answered them, "Most certainly I tell you, you seek me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves, and were filled. Don't work for the food which perishes, but for the food which remains to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For God the Father has sealed him."
They said therefore to him, "What must we do, that we may work the works of God?"
Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
They said therefore to him, "What then do you do for a sign, that we may see, and believe you? What work do you do? 31Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness. As it is written, 'He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.'"
Jesus therefore said to them, "Most certainly, I tell you, it wasn't Moses who gave you the bread out of heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world."
They said therefore to him, "Lord, always give us this bread."
Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will not be hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. But I told you that you have seen me, and yet you don't believe. All those who the Father gives me will come to me. Him who comes to me I will in no way throw out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. [Here is the key to the passage, and it is not a cannibalistic, blood-frinking gastronomic heresies such as the Catholic Chruch teaches in the Eucharist. The bread and wine are IN REMEMBRANCE at the Lord's table. What the faux Christianity Catholicism teaches violates the very nature of God! From the beginning God told mankind not to drink the blood of any animal. The Life is in the blood. We are to let the life, in the blood, go out upon the ground. ] This is the will of my Father who sent me, that of all he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise him up at the last day. This is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son, and believes in him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." [This is not a cannibalistic heresy, it is the plan of Salvation, the means of Justification. Yet Catholicism drives it home into catholic minds to commit an act contrary to God's own nature! And to do this over and over again, as if somehow the catholic heresies can renew salvation, renew God's Grace, over and over and over! Enough already. You heretics are modern cannibals, not Christians! Get this through your dead minds, that Jesus even starts the passage exposing you cannibals: v26 "Most certainly I tell you, you seek me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves, and were filled."]
v47 Most certainly, I tell you, he who believes in me has eternal life. ['By faith/belief are ye saved not of works lest any repetitive cannibalistic catholic should boast'; Jes us was not teaching them to be cannibals for that is contrary to God's nature. Jews knew it then, but apparently blind and dumb catholics are ignorant of Whom God IS.] I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, that anyone may eat of it and not die. [Anyone may eat of this bread BY BELIEVING IN HIM, not by cannibalizing His body and blood, over and over and over and over, in a rite designed to Nicolaitanize Christianity.]
How can you be so double minded, to miss the lesson so completely? If you are saying the literal meaning is to cannibalize, eat transubstantiated (transmogrified, like Calvin's imaginary monsters) bread and wine as flesh and blood of Jesus, and those disciples who left were leaving because the literal meaning is contrary to God's nature, then the ones who left were obeying what they had been taught regarding YHWH.
But if the meaning is to practice this rite of bread and wine in REMEMBRANCE of His sacrificing His body for us on the Cross, and His blood upon the Mercy seat, and the disciples could not abide this offering which meant He would die soon, well then you are on the proper track to Honor The Grace of God in Christ!
One can NOT make this stuff up!
Roger that. Isn't that kind of like saying what one of them said before, I don't interpret scripture, I just read it and tell you what it says. I don't remember who said that, but it brought lots of laughter and derision. 😂😇😀😱 I figure if I am going to be an instigator, I might as well be a good one. 😎
well, I should have read to the end of the thread before scribbling out more. You nailed it, m’Lady!
Here is wisdom!
The gospel is pretty much foolishness to all followers of works based religions. I know it was to me. I only stayed with the Catholic Church for about a month, after being saved. I couldn't take it anymore, so I beat feet to the door, and never looked back.
Re: Source of Apostolic Tradition: Read what the Early Church Fathers say.
Yes, MamaB, Catholics are well aware that there are man-made traditions in addition to the teachings which have down to us from Christ through the Apostles.
Just out of curiousity, which Catholic sources do you use?
We might disagree on secondary (e.g. eschatology) and tertiary (e.g. "style") questions but the essentials of the faith bind us together in the family of God.
The debates that we typically have on these threads are matters of orthodoxy. They are of primary importance and are necessary to have a right understanding of God's will and God's Truth (e.g. grace and works.) They are matters that define whose we are.
If all of the Protestant Christians were to meet and spend time together, we would discover those secondary and tertiary areas of disagreement - but those matters would not cause us to separate from each other. These might drive us to different denominations but we would still call each other "brothers and sisters" in Christ.
“AMPU wrote: “They do object to idolizing blessed Mary and turning her in to a demigoddess, as Catholicism does.”
“How do Catholics do this?
............
1. Bowing before her
2. Setting her up as an intermediary between men and God
3. Giving her magical powers
4. Making up falsehoods that go beyond what God declared about her.
5. Calling her names and titles God Himself never gave her.
Because Scripture is clear in forbidding the eating of blood, and Jesus Himself said that the words He had been speaking were SPIRITUAL truths, that the flesh profited nothing but it was the SPIRIT who gave life.
So which is it? The Spirit who gives life or eating Jesus?
Like what? Catholics keep making comments about the widely divergent views on topics that Prots are supposed to have but never come through with concrete examples.
Would you care to be the first?
So what is that wide variation?
From the Catechism of the Catholic church....
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm
969 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”510
Names of God from the Bible. Compare them to the names given to Mary in the above prayer.
Jesus
Hope (our) - 1 Timothy 1:1
Counselor - Isaiah 9:6
Advocate - 1 John 2:1
Mediator - 1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 12:24
Holy Spirit
Comforter - John 14:26
Helper – John 14:16
This is worship of Mary if ever there was.....Attributing to her the attributes of God is idolatry.
Where is the assumption of Mary taught there?
And her perpetual virginity?
And *immaculate conception*?
Were the ECF’s contemporaries of the apostles and do they cite their direct teachings with direct quotes?
The evidence is the historical record.
The sequence is this: Christ's ministry (including the training of His disciples), His death and Resurrection, more teaching of His disciples, Pentecost (the birth of the Church) and the Holy Spirit indwelling those who believe, the transmission by "oral tradition" of the events and truths, and then the inspired writing of what we know as the New Testament.
I said "erroneously" because the RCC hangs so much on "sacred tradition" that it falsely says has continues to evolve since the 1st C. and, indeed, continues to evolve even now. My belief is that "oral tradition" bridged the events to the inspired writing and is no longer an active part of what determines essential truths. In deed, it hasn't been since the end of the 1st Century (about 95 A.D., IIRC.)
I also believe that even the period of "oral tradition" was protected and guided by God until it could be recorded.
HERE is something that might be useful - I just found it a moment ago.
The link might or might not align perfectly with my response. If it leads you to a useful response or question, I invite the conversation.
The Catholic Church does not teach that we can “earn” our salvation through good works—in fact, this idea is a heresy (Pelagianism) condemned by the Church in the 400s. However, the Church does teach that we must cooperate with God and not say, Well, I’m saved, so now I can do whatever I want. (Sometimes I think Protestants are a lot closer to the Catholic position than they realize, just using different language to explain their idea.)
And when birds of prey came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away. As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell on Abram. (Gen 15:11,12)
Please read the whole thing for context. Also read Ch 12)
ONLY THEN could the Abrahamic Covenant be established. It (and the "New") was ("is") an unconditional covenant. God made promises to Abraham that required nothing of Abraham - not even keeping the birds away (a relatively simple work, right?).
We (all of us!) can't do anything to help with the covenant! God does it all!
Afterwards, however, we are VERY USEFUL to him as we follow the Great Commission of this Age. We are at work cooperating with God to grow and strengthen His Church.
Whatever we do apart from Him is junk.
I agree after going back and reading the text of the Newman site. It is a synopsis of what he touts. It is so far from Scripture that it leads itself to the conclusions of the author of this article.
But, regardless of the source, the sentiment and underlying truth is revealed. Scripture does not change. God does not change. The Roman Catholic cult changes daily and Newman demonstrates that with lofty claims but little facts!
I got in trouble for saying “you think...” and you are saying things like “You heretics are modern cannibals, not Christians! Get this through your dead minds....”
aMPU wrote why he thinks Catholics idolize or worship Mary:
“1. Bowing before her
“2. Setting her up as an intermediary between men and God
“3. Giving her magical powers
“4. Making up falsehoods that go beyond what God declared about her.
“5. Calling her names and titles God Himself never gave her.”
1. As I said, young men kneel to women whose hand they are asking for in marriage... Bowing was a part of our culture not so long ago that it should seem completely unreasonable or foreign to someone as a sign of respect.
2. Even Protestants ask others to pray for them, and that is what we do with Mary. To us, she is the ultimate prayer warrior, so of course we want to ask her to pray for us!
3. & 4. Can you show me where the Church teaches these things?
5. I assume you are talking about things like her Immaculate Conception. Does it not make sense to you that God would want a perfect “tabernacle” for His Son? Do you think God cannot do that?
The reference is to Christ’s living body—a body quickened by the presence of His spirit, the re-uniting of which occurred at the Resurrection.
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