The Two Witnesses are Key! Where Do the Two Witnesses Fit into Daniel 9:27?

IFB ^ | 6/10/15

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

My dear friends, no doubt that such a thought on this "established" topic is bound for harsh criticism by those who hold strongly to their Daniel 9:27 position... but... here we go.... My dear friends, the key to understanding Daniel 9:27 is found in the 1260 day ministry of the Two Witnesses, which takes place in the first half of the seven year tribulation (Rev. 11:1-13). Leave these Two out or diminish them at all and the whole prophetic text of Daniel 9:27 falls apart. Many fine biblical scholars throughout the years have suggested in this passage that it will be the anti-Messiah - who will make a covenant with the many (an abundance) - which also includes the nation of Israel and will bring shalom and security to the nation of Israel by adding his mighty strength (gabar) to it (Ezek. 38: 38:8,11, 12, 14, 39:26, Dan. 9:27).

very long post...

[Old Sarge]

I find that the fiercest arguments are the timing of things: which event comes first?

[j_guru]

Interesting theory, and well written.
However, I do have one question...

"that the Two Witnesses of Revelation will be sent to Israel as this covenant is confirmed and will then protect Israel for the first 1260 days"

If the Two Witnesses are there to protect Israel, then when do the people celebrate when they are killed?

Revelation 11:9-10 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

[SubMareener]

Very interesting analysis. It seems that Daniel 9-12 is becoming more unsealed by the moment! Knowledge is certainly increasing! Look up! Your redemption draws neigh!

[Thorliveshere]

One interpretation of the “two witnesses” is that they’re actually the old and new testament. They were “slain” when in 1793 France abolished the Bible, acknowledged there was “no god” and started the “Reign of Terror.” France declared it the “age of reason” and 10’s of thousands died. Bibles were burned, churches were desecrated. Three years later the law was changed to make tolerance for Christianity. That sounds like they “returned to life” to me.

That’s just one interpretation I’ve read. Found it interesting.

[j_guru]

I meant “why” and not “when” lol

[SubMareener]

This makes more sense in light of the article. The world has had 1260 days of being against Israel and not being able to do anything about it. Then they are killed, and the people celebrate. The anti-Messiah takes this opportunity to defile the temple. The awake Jews flee to the wilderness. Then the Two Witnesses are revived, and “half time” is over! ;-)

[SubMareener]

The YHVH made the world using cyclical patterns. There are always precursors to major events. For example: Enoch’s translation, Lot leaving Sodom, and Moses taking his flock to the West were all precursors to the Rapture of the Church.

[Dr. Sivana]

A common theological view is that the Two Witnesses are Enoch and Elias (Elijah), who are disappear but are not recorded as having actually died. They come back, and get martyred.

[mdmathis6]

Sounds like it will be around Christmas time!

[Arlis]

A view that I find highly likely to be correct........but then, in so many of these details, only God knows....... run from the man who insists that he knows the details for sure.

The only One Man who knew for sure will return - that we can be sure of.

[j_guru]

That would be a tough case to make since the Fig Tree (which in almost all cases, is an emblem of the Nation of Israel) had not blossomed at that time. Matthew 24:32 - this actually happened May 14th 1948

[Thorliveshere]

Ah, good point.

[StoneWall Brigade]

Ping

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

The Daniel 9:27 agreement will start the 7 year tribulation after the Rapture of the true body of Christ.. Have faith in God my friend! Hebrews 11:6.. so it will be the rapture of the true body of believers in Jesus Christ

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

Thanks for your great question!

Their ministry is only for 1260 days or the first 3 1/2 lunar years of the 7 year tribulation... We go into detail on this on this post on the Two Witnesses.. after their horrific murder they rise before all nations and the beast absolutely confirming all their words and Messiah will return 3 1/2 years later at Armageddon to crush Satan and his godless human followers (Rev. 19:11-21) then He will establish His 1000 year Kingdom reign (Isa. 2, 11 Mic 4)..

It’s all good in the Lord!

I.F.

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

Indeed! Live up here in CT near Groton sub-base... have you ever been there... as your name states so I believe you have!

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

There are many but any teaching on it must be rooted in the Holy Scriptures (2 Peter 2:19-21). I never heard that opinion before.. thanks for sharing it!

I.F.

[The Ignorant Fisherman]

Yes.. because they never saw death.. (Heb. 9:27) but I believe as the post has stated that it will be Moses and Elijah.. all the pictures point to them. Both are Jews, both were God’s men in a time of ramped unbelief and the Day of the Lord is a totally supernatural period (Rev. 6-16). Remember Lazarus, the man who fell from the window when Paul was preaching, the widow’s son in Elijah day, those at the murder and resurrection of Christ died and were resuscitated back to life but the Holy Spirit... much like Moses and Elijah will be after their violent murder at the hand of the beast (Rev. 11:12) who was wounded unto death and is now alive again... (Rev. 11:7) thus showing Heb 9:27 in the normal way for man at death but there has been and will be some amazing acceptations!

All of God’s highest and best!

[StormPrepper]

A common theological view is that the Two Witnesses are Enoch and Elias (Elijah), who are disappear but are not recorded as having actually died. They come back, and get martyred.

And completely wrong. Badly wrong. It reeks of theorycraft.

When ever the writers in the Bible speak of prophets known to them, they call them by name. When ever they speak of prophets not yet known, the don't call them by any name.

These prophets aren't known.

The Bible contains the tiniest of a fraction of the events that actually happened over thousands of years... not to mention all the writings from the prophets that were thrown out by the man made church that came after Christ's original Church.

You can't actually believe that their names have to be in the Bible??? Seriously??

Enoch and Elias completed their work and were taken into heaven. They are done. They are not coming back, being turned mortal again to be killed.

The real point of Rev 11 is two fold. 1) There are prophets in the last days. Prophets that have the same authority and power of God that prophets like Moses had. 2) To be a final sign to be seen and understood by the world. Those who are on the side of the prophets will know that Christ's second coming is near. And it will make everyone else tremble with fear.

Here's another thing...

There aren't throngs of "Christians" surrounding these two. Therefore, it must be concluded that "Christianity" has no idea who these men really are. They rejected them.

Their bodies lie in the street for three days. And it doesn't say the world will be afraid at seeing these two stand up after being dead...it says only those that saw them stand up. The world isn't watching them...only the locals.

Rev 11 is like a ticking time bomb for every Catholic and protestant...