On Same-Sex Marriage, Catholics Are Leading the Way in Legalization

New York Times ^ | 05/27/2015 | Frank Bruni

[SeekAndFind]

Take a look at this list of countries: Belgium, Canada, Spain, Argentina, Portugal, Brazil, France, Uruguay, Luxembourg and Ireland. Name two things that they have in common.

They don’t share a continent, obviously. Or a language.

But in all of them, the Roman Catholic Church has more adherents, at least nominally, than any other religious denomination does.

And all of them belong to the vanguard of 20 nations that have decided to make same-sex marriage legal.

In fact, countries with a Catholic majority or plurality make up half of those where two men or two women can now wed or will soon be able to.

Ireland, obviously, is the freshest addition to the list. It’s also, in some ways, the most remarkable one. It’s the first country to approve same-sex marriage by a popular referendum. The margin wasn’t even close. About 62 percent of voters embraced marriage equality.

And they did so despite a past of great fealty to the Catholic Church’s official teachings on, for example, contraception, which was outlawed in Ireland until 1980, and abortion, which remains illegal in most circumstances.

Irish voters nonetheless rejected the church’s formal opposition to same-sex marriage. This act of defiance was described, accurately, as an illustration of church leaders’ loosening grip on the country.

But in falling out of line with the Vatican, Irish people are actually falling in line with their Catholic counterparts in other Western countries, including the United States.

[fwdude]

I was referring to prop 22, which a court set aside before prop 8 reinstituted it.

And close counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and elections.

[ansel12]

On Catholics supporting the gay agenda?

You didn’t see how the Catholics voted in Ireland, you think that a personal insult changes the reality of Catholic voting?

“Mix that in with the Catholics in America voting for the democrats and their gay agenda, the author has a point.”

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Catholic teaching no more “led the way to homo marriage” just because many people support it in largely Catholic countries any more than Christian teaching led the way to the homo victories in the USA. It is the deviation from and rejection of those teachings.

You can ask why are so many Catholics deserting biblical ideas of morality. You can’t say biblical teachings on morality caused the desertion. In your post you seem to be presenting an argument that Catholicism has failed. That may be a fair question, just as Christianity in the west has generally failed. There are probably a variety of reasons for the failure. The Bible teaches we are always battling sin and our sin nature. History teaches that the war against Truth has suffered many defeats. That does not mean that the teaching caused the failure or even led the way. It is the enemies of the teaching that cause it to fail.

I’m not Catholic and I have many issues with Catholic doctrine. I am speaking of their basic moral teachings. Even there I think they are weak in some spots. Still, where they are right, right teaching does not CAUSE wrong practice. Rebellion against right teaching causes wrong practice.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

You are right. Prop 22 passed by a large number. Prop 8 passed by a much smaller percentage. It is a miracle that is passed at all that year given the huge majority Soetoro won in CA that year. And yes you are right, it still won nonetheless, then overturned by unelected judges.

[Campion]

And all of them belong to the vanguard of 20 nations that have decided to make same-sex marriage legal.

The other ones being traditional Protestant stalwarts like the Netherlands, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, the UK, etc.

So basically, religion has nothing to do with it, because the West is mostly apostate anyway.

(What's really strange is that the author thinks it's somehow significant that nominal Catholics make up 38% of the Canadian population -- not a majority by any means -- when same-sex marriage was imposed in Canada by legislation and judicial decree anyway, and has never been passed in a referendum.)

[ansel12]

LOL, the denomination is not a race, and Hispanics are new to influencing the numbers, and the Catholic vote is not changing from what it has always been.

As whites flee Catholicism, some of the remaining ones are starting to vote like moderate Protestants, big deal.

You don’t think that this new white superiority thing by some Catholics as they try to defend the pro-gay/pro-abortion vote of their fellow Catholics, is creepy, and that it makes no sense, since we are talking about a denomination, and Catholics who came from almost pure Catholic countries?

[ex-snook]

Another thing in common. The Catholic Church won’t marry gays in any one of the countries.

[onyx]

TRY to READ the column you seem to take delight within.

That’s because “Catholics” includes not just worshipers who attend Mass weekly and perhaps tilt in a more conservative direction but those who go less frequently and those for whom Catholicism is as much an ethnic as a religious identity.

[HiTech RedNeck]

It sounds almost like gleeful taunting. I’m a Wascally Evangelical who has too much respect for any house of worship in the name of Jesus to do that. But the author is a libertine.

[SeekAndFind]

RE: The Catholic Church won’t marry gays in any one of the countries

It’s not the Catholic Church’s doctrine that is the problem, it is the adherents themselves who are the problem.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

I can tell you this much:

There IS a difference between how practicing Catholics vote and how non practicing or secular Catholics vote.

There IS a difference between how white Catholics vote and non white Catholics vote.

I would argue that white religious Catholics vote along pretty much the same lines as white religious Protestants.

Race is the biggest factor in determining voter preference these days in the US. Regular church attendance-—does not matter if Catholic or Protestant-—is another big factor.

[Campion]

As whites flee Catholicism, some of the remaining ones

Those would be the ones who actually believe in Catholicism, BTW.

are starting to vote like moderate Protestants

Or in many cases, more conservatively than a lot of conservative Protestants.

[SeekAndFind]

In most (or is it all?) American states where referendums on same-sex marriage were held, same-sex marriage was REJECTED. This is true in liberal states like California and Hawaii.

It is the judiciary that overturned the results of the referendum.

[onyx]

You’re right, on every count.

[al_c]

These are countries, not the Catholic Church, making these decisions.

[SeekAndFind]

RE: These are countries, not the Catholic Church, making these decisions

Let’s make it a little more accurate — it is the CITIZENS (mostly Catholics ) of the countries who VOTED for it.

[ansel12]

LOL, right, if Catholics start voting like Evangelicals, then we would get somewhere.

It would be nice to get 75% and 80% of the catholic vote, instead of Obama and Clinton winning it.

[RginTN]

They aren’t they are loud voices which have like minded media people giving them the most airtime.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Nominals.

[ansel12]

Read my posts, I mention the baptized members of the Catholic denomination, who identify as Catholics.

If they aren’t Catholics, then have the main office in Europe remove them and quit counting them.

Only the Catholics trying to defend the Catholic gay/abortion/democrat voting of their members, try to get off into the purity of their fellow church members faith, and how inferior it is.