Posted on 03/22/2015 5:47:53 PM PDT by grumpa
WHEN IS (WAS) THE GREAT TRIBULATION?
by Charles S. Meek
“And they will deliver YOU up to tribulation. . . .” (Matthew 24:9)
“For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.” (Luke 21:22)
“For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole EARTH.” (Luke 21:35)
The Olivet Discourse contains the greatest body of prophecy in the New Testament outside of Revelation. It is found in the parallel passages of Matthew 24/25, Mark 13, and Luke 21. The above passages in the Olivet Discourse are referring to the Great Tribulation at Jesus’ Parousia (his effectual divine presence in judgment). Was Jesus speaking of the entire globe as we know it today, or was He speaking of the world in which He and his contemporaries lived, that is, Judea?
The word translated as “earth” in Luke 21 is the Greek word ge. The online Blue Letter Bible interlinear gives several meanings for this word, including: (a) the inhabited earth, (b) country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, or region. As always, context and audience relevance determine how to interpret the Bible. Let’s take a look at another time we find this word in the immediate context of the Olivet Discourse:
Matthew 23:35—“That upon YOU may come all the righteous blood shed upon the EARTH [ge], from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias.” This is a clear reference to the Jewish people, and not to all the people on the globe.
In addition to Luke 21:35, Luke’s version of the Olivet Discourse contains the same word “ge” in another verse—verse 21: “There shall be great distress in the LAND [ge].” Jesus is obviously speaking about Jerusalem, which is confirmed by the further context:
In Luke 21:20-21 Jesus tells his followers that they will know when the Tribulation is upon them by the appearance of armies around Jerusalem, and that they can escape the Tribulation by fleeing to the mountains. These instructions limit the extent of the Tribulation to the immediate region—not the whole globe as we think of it today. It matches perfectly with the events surrounding the invasion of Judea by the Roman army in AD 66-70, at which time over a million Jews were killed and the temple demolished.
In the Olivet Discourse, we find several clear time restrictions: (1) At least seven times Jesus restricts the events to those to whom He is speaking, by such phrases as “When YOU see. . . .” Consider: Matthew 24:6, 9, 15, 33, 34, 44; Luke 21:20. (2) For further emphasis, Jesus said, “For THIS IS THE TIME of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.” Luke 21:22 (3) Just in case they were too dense to get it, He emphasized, “Truly I tell you, THIS GENERATION will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” Luke 21:32 (4) And, if it there was any lingering doubt about when it would happen, He said, “Pray that you may be able to escape all that is ABOUT TO happen.” (Luke 21:36, see the NIV or literal translations such as the YLT)
But wait. Jesus said it would be the worst tribulation ever (Matthew 24:21). Wasn’t the holocaust worse? Jesus’ frequent use of hyperbole aside, in terms of Jewish history AND covenant, the events surrounding AD 70 were indeed, without exaggeration, the most horrific days ever to befall God’s people.
What about Revelation? Well, John said he was in the tribulation WHEN HE WAS WRITING Revelation! See Revelation 1:9 and 2:9-10. Dozens of scholars are persuaded that Revelation was written in the 60’s AD. So John’s “tribulation” could have been referring to either the Christian persecution under Nero during AD 64-68 or to the devastating events of the Jewish-Roman War in AD 66-70. In either case, this is consistent with Jesus’ numerous “this generation” statements.
Conclusion: The events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem as predicted by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse were restricted by Him to the region and the people of Judea in the first century. This was the Great Tribulation. There is NO indication in God’s Word that it will ever happen again. To read a future “great tribulation” into the text does violence to the promises of Jesus.
For more information, see my websites:
https://prophecyquestions.wordpress.com
http://www.faithfacts.org/world-religions-and-theology/the-biblical-last-days
https://www.facebook.com/EvangelicalPreterism
Yep... the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD does not fit with the “end of the world” scenario. The destruction of the anti-christ. The return of Christ. The battle of Armagedon. Heaven coming to earth and a new Jerusalem... etc etc.
And here I thought it would be on May 17, 2018. Silly me.
John the Revelator.
Yep... 90ish has been the believed time of the writing of Revelation for centuries. Lately some modern theologians have suggested it may have been earlier. I’ll probably stick with the 90 number.
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Everything beyond verse 4 of Matthew 24 is future, although some of the persecution has also happened in the past.
As to the Revelation, we are at the end of the 5th seal, and it is clear to see that the 6th seal events are ready to proceed.
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As of now, the beginning of the “70th week” has to be at least 1 year away, since we just began the Shemitta year at sundown today. Or it could be 8 years away, etc.
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I thought it started last september...
Careful. Harold Camping is still eating a steady supply of crow.
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>> He said “some of you standing here”. <<
.” This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled” refers to the generation that sees it begin.
Any other understanding would make the entire chapter nonsensical and self contradicting.
Obviously, for example, Yeshua has not yet come in the clouds for his elect.
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That's right. The generation of the fig tree.
Perfect example of why I believe the Bible was chopped into pieces and reassembled to hide information from those without a "key."
The interesting point is for preterism to be relevant Revelation would need to have been penned sometime in 65AD for it to be properly disseminated and itself relevant.
Plus Revelation was addressed to 7 Asia Minor churches. If the book’s prophecies were to only effect Judea why send it to Asia minor?
You just don’t have to get deep in scriptures to see the inconsistencies.
agree
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It has to start at the beginning of a Sabbath of years.
That means it has to start at the beginning of the month of the Aviv barley, of the first year of a Sabbath of years.
Aviv, one year from today would be the first possibility, and Aviv 2021 would be the next after that, and so on.
It cannot happen in the fall; the Aviv barley comes shortly, after the vernal equinox usually, And the Biblical year cannot begin in the fall. (The Pharisees declare Rosh Hashanah in the fall, but they know that it is really in the spring)
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Mr. Meek is wrong on the account that the Great Tribulation has already occurred; it has not.
Matthew 24:15-22:
“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.”
As of this time, we are hearing of hundreds of men, women and children being slain for their faith in Jesus Christ and the word of their testimony by a demonic army.
A pestilence known to us as Ebola has stricken and killed more than 10,000 people. There is also MERS and SARS.
And there is also a resurgence of diseases such as measles, whooping cough, tuberculosis, superbacteria, and two previously unknown maladies—one that mimics polio, the other one a deadly lung infection that can kill virtually within hours.
Russia and Iran are posed to annihilate the United States, with Putin taking ever more aggressive military moves on any given day. Understand, if this happens: THE MOMENT that Iran sees Kerry and Co. go home because the door’s just been slammed permanently shut on any more ‘talks’, and the heaviest sanctions come...
I could go on describing the horrors of what is occurring right now, and what is to come that we read about in Biblical scripture, but what I need to say now, in these closing hours of Sunday, is this:
Do you know Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?
If not, accept Him and turn your life back over to Him before it is too late. If you do know Him, tell others who don’t know Jesus about Him, and how He gave His Life for theirs.
Stand in the faith and love of Christ, and pray continuously, my brothers and sisters in faith and freedom.
Interesting. There is a family in our church who are Jewish. Jewish Christians. Their relatives all live in Israel and are very devout in Judaism. We’re suppose to go to their home on passover with some other couples and see a jewish passover celebration. He says the way it has been done since the people crossed the red sea. The way his family is doing it in Israel. Its just for informational purposes etc. Enrichment and better understanding. I need to visit with him about the calendar a little etc. Its always interesting to me.
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Rabbinical Judaism just began to move back to the Biblical calendar a few months ago.
They may celebrate Passover on the Biblical date for the first time in 2000 years this year, which would be at sundown of April 3 of the Roman calendar. (the beginning of the 14th day of Nissan/Aviv)
Dr. Ken Gentry has written a scholarly, well researched work on the dating of the book of Revelation. This book is the published edition of his PHD thesis on this subject.
Here is the original edition of Dr. Gentry’s thesis, published as BEFORE JERUSALEM FELL-THE DATING OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION. This detailed presentation is quite good - Dr. Gentry outlines the position, then presents Scriptural and secular evidence.. proof that the book of Revelation was written before 70 AD, then answers many of the objections to this position that have been voiced on this very thread.
Here’s where the FREE PDF copy of the book can be downloaded. The book is also available on Amazon..in a newer edition, and will cost money, but the first edition is available for free here. = http://freebooks.entrewave.com/freebooks/docs/2206_47e.htm
Here’s an interesting audio interview with Dr. Gentry, he details his position that the book of Revelation was written before 70 AD, prior to the 95-96 AD date held by modern scholars. You’ll find that Dr. Gentry presents a well thought out defense of this position in an irenic manner. It’s well worth to the time to listen to this interview.
Here’s the audio interview with Dr. Gentry. This truly is a fascinating discussion=
https://youtu.be/lLLE4srpZOA
Here’s another book, written by David Chilton, titled THE GREAT TRIBULATION, defending the position that the Tribulation that Jesus spoke of in The Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) actually did occur in 70 AD, when Jerusalem fell. Dr. Chilton outlines the position, presenting specific Biblical evidence for this position, then answers many of the objections to this view, some of which have been voiced on this very thread. Here’s the book in PDF format. This is an outstanding book by one of the best Biblical Scholars I’ve ever read. =
http://chiltoncenter.org/great-tribulation
This little book is actually ONE chapter out of a larger work, defending the Evangelical Preterist position, titled PARADISE RESTORED. It’s also the one book that changed my own position away from Dispensationalism. This fascinating book WILL shake people out of their Dispensational daydreams, for sure, if they would only but read seriously read it!
Here’s a free copy of the book in PDF format = http://chiltoncenter.org/paradise-restored/
Gary DeMar has written a wonderful little book, with a detailed exposition of Matthew 24 (verse by verse), defending this position, titled LAST DAYS MADNESS. This really is one of the best books on this topic I’ve read. Sadly, this book is NOT available in Free PDF format, but, here’s the Amazon link to this book. =
http://www.amazon.com/Last-Days-Madness-Obsession-Modern/dp/0915815354/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427088244&sr=1-1&keywords=last+days+madness+gary+demar
If any of ya’ll would like to read this book, but may be unable to buy this book at this time, perhaps I can help, just Freepmail me.
The position that the Tribulation spoken of by Jesus occurred in 70 AD, is NOT a new position. If some serious historical study of this eschatological position is undertaken, you’ll find that the idea of a FUTURE Tribulation arose in the early 19th century; it’s an idea that sprang from the works of J.N. Darby and other leaders in early Dispensationalism. No reputable scholar of any note held to this specific Dispensational futuristic position prior to 1830.
Well.. ok. then.. what eschatological view did Protestant Christians generally embrace prior to 1830?
Well, that’s the question, isn’t it ? These books I’ve recommended above, go a long way to answering this question, and many others.. Go ahead..Download ‘em and read ‘em.. believe me, you won’t be sorry~!
We still have to see the folks claiming to be Christ returned and to have all eyes see Him as He descends....
Greetings, BC. I see that you are PCA in Texas. Me too. Shoot me an email at cmeek01@msn.com. (Charles Meek)
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