Posted on 03/18/2015 6:21:18 AM PDT by RnMomof7
What is the exact citation for this "quotation," so I can read it in context? I tried Googling on several portions of it. EVERY SINGLE HIT came from an anti-Catholic Protestant website. Every one!! The language doesn't even read like Vatican II. What is the actual citation? "Vatican Council II" is not a citation.
Another “bash the Catholics” thread. It really deserves a barf alert.
Excellent summary.
It is an outward sign... but there is more. The burial with Christ is an explanation of what is happening in that we are joining in His Sacrifice of the New Covenant. But Baptism is more than a symbol or sign. It isn't just a social event to show conversion. It is an outward sign of inward Grace. Jesus gave the command that the world should be baptized in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and observe all that had been taught to the Apostles. It is the great commission, not just some play-acting meant as a symbol. It is real in the reality of the water and real in the reality of the Grace. Too many reduce the sacraments given to us to mere play-acting!
False once again. It's faith in Christ that is the beginning.
Faith brings you to Baptism, yes. However, your life in Christ begins with Baptism. This is the "born again" discussion with Nicodemus of John 3. Why do I get the feeling that if I quoted the Church in saying the sky is blue, you would feel the need to correct me to the correct shade?
Absolute nonsense. There is no scripture to substantiate that.
Speaking of nonsense... nearly every Scripture on the subject of Baptism screams that. What is the first thing that occurs when one wants to join the Church? Whether it's the Ethiopian or the multitudes, it is Baptism. You can quibble if you want over names of rites and such but the reality is the same. It is the initiation into the body of the Church.
The Catholic belief system is a total corruption of the word of God with added pagan beliefs and practices. Just like you attempt to use the demons know that comment. It's corrupting the words of scripture and not to be trusted.
Matt 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Now, I am sick and tired of the invective. You and I see the subject we are discussing differently. I am not calling you out as a heretic or corruptor... just discussing. I would appreciate the same courtesy. Stick to the subject and stop with the invective or I will ignore you from here on.
Careful. Your ignorance is showing.
This is what's known as teaching without teaching. You tell the student he is wrong and send him back to find the answer himself. Not biting. If you have something to say, say it.
I'm pretty good, but not that good.LOL
FMCDH(BITS)
Jews do not pray for the dead.
You are wrong. They have prayers for the dead.
You may remember this one:
"I was once, five or six years ago, taken by some friends to have dinner with Mary McCarthy and her husband, Mr. Broadwater. (She just wrote that book, A Charmed Life). She departed the Church at the age of 15 and is a Big Intellectual…"Well, toward morning the conversation turned on the Eucharist, which I, being the Catholic, was obviously supposed to defend. Mrs. Broadwater said when she was a child and received the Host, she thought of it as the Holy Ghost, He being the ‘most portable’ person of the Trinity; now she thought of it as a symbol and implied that it was a pretty good one.
"I then said, in a very shaky voice, 'Well, if it’s just a symbol, to hell with it.' That was all the defense I was capable of but I realize now that this is all I will ever be able to say about it, outside of a story, except that it is the center of existence for me; all the rest of life is expendable."
– Flannery O’Connor, "The Habit of Being"
Romans 6:5 For, if we have become planted together to the likeness of his death, so also we shall be of the rising again;
It is indeed finished.
However, I think its a mistake to single out Rome. Many Christian churches have people working themselves silly trying to become what God has already made them to be.
Ephesians 2, which should be studied often, makes it perfectly clear - we WERE dead in sin, but NOW we are made alive IN CHRIST, and seated in Heavenly places. Not because of works, good or otherwise - man gets no glory. We are GOD’s workmanship, recreated in Christ Jesus. It is a gift! And what a gift it is.
The religious just need to get their “but” out of the way. They read God’s Word, His revelation for the Body of Christ given through Paul, and desire to add something else. Either Ephesians 2 (along with the rest of Paul’s revelation to The Church) is TRUTH, or its not.
Thank you.
There I times I get angry and sin, there are times when I sin and I enjoy it and then I come back to the father expecting the heave hand of punishment wincing for a blow and instead he puts his arm around me. That's grace, that's what freedom means. That was Paul's experience in Romans 7.
Romans 7:15-18 “For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”
When I sin I don't have to worry; I have accepted the free gift of salvation, and my sins have been paid for.
John 2:1-2 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation [payment] for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
I John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
Romans 5:6-9 “ For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”
v15-16 “But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.”
Steve Brown said it this way “I mean you are really free. No disclaimer. No addendum. No qualifying points. You are free.
I didn’t say it. Jesus did: “‘If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. . . . Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed’” (John 8:31-32, 36). Freedom is a gift from the Son of God. If He says I’m free, that ought to settle it for me. And He does say it. So I dare anyone to say otherwise.” You can find the whole article here: http://www.keylife.org/articles/radical-freedom
I'm God's, if I wander off, He will come for me. The prodigal son may have left for the far country, but he didn't stop being a son. Toddlers mess things up time and time again; I have never heard of anyone suggesting that parents threaten to disown their toddlers to get them to behave. God doesn't disown his children, for he seals them with his Spirit. I may grieve that spirit in my sin, but he won't leave me (Ephesians 4:30). I'm a child of God and because of that I have freedom, real radical freedom.
II Corinthians 3:17 “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”
Romans 8:21 “Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.”
Jesus came to save sinners of whom I am the chief. Amen. My motivation to follow him is far deeper than a fear of rejection. I am free to fail, free to love Him because he first loved me, free to take risks, and free to follow Him. There are many times God gives us instruction on what to do and of course not to sin; I am not discounting these passages, but I do not cower as a slave. I need not even stoop as a servant, though like the Prodigal I am I desire to serve. I serve out of love. God let me see a reflection of that service in the picture of my little girl grabbing a stool and coming to kitchen counter to help dry the dishes. There was no fear in her help, she needed to threat but offered it up out of love. Thank God for the type and the pictures of the family of God he gave us in the family.
Sometimes all I can say in my heart is draw me Lord (Song of Solomon 1:4); other times all I can say is there is no where else to go Lord (John 6:68).
So these believers who had already received the Holy Spirit but were not yet baptised hadn't begun their "life in Christ"?
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Sure pgyanke! Got any more myths of Catholicism?
>>This is the "born again" discussion with Nicodemus of John 3.<<
No, it's not. Jesus was talking about natural birth and spiritual birth.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Being born of water was referring to the fleshly birth. It had nothing to do with baptism.
>>It is the initiation into the body of the Church.<<
No, it is not. Simon Magus was baptised.
>>Now, I am sick and tired of the invective.<<
I'm sure you are. It remains that the Catholic Church has corrupted scripture and added pagan beliefs and practices.
The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.[Cardinal Newman - Development of Christian Doctrine, pg 373]
Prove it.
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