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Christ in the Eucharist
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/christ-in-the-eucharist ^ | August 10, 2004 | Robert H. Brom

Posted on 03/07/2015 9:44:41 PM PST by NKP_Vet

Protestant attacks on the Catholic Church often focus on the Eucharist. This demonstrates that opponents of the Church—mainly Evangelicals and Fundamentalists—recognize one of Catholicism’s core doctrines. What’s more, the attacks show that Fundamentalists are not always literalists. This is seen in their interpretation of the key biblical passage, chapter six of John’s Gospel, in which Christ speaks about the sacrament that will be instituted at the Last Supper. This tract examines the last half of that chapter.

John 6:30 begins a colloquy that took place in the synagogue at Capernaum. The Jews asked Jesus what sign he could perform so that they might believe in him. As a challenge, they noted that "our ancestors ate manna in the desert." Could Jesus top that? He told them the real bread from heaven comes from the Father. "Give us this bread always," they said. Jesus replied, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst." At this point the Jews understood him to be speaking metaphorically.

Again and Again

Jesus first repeated what he said, then summarized: "‘I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’" (John 6:51–52).

His listeners were stupefied because now they understood Jesus literally—and correctly. He again repeated his words, but with even greater emphasis, and introduced the statement about drinking his blood: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).

No Corrections

Notice that Jesus made no attempt to soften what he said, no attempt to correct "misunderstandings," for there were none. Our Lord’s listeners understood him perfectly well. They no longer thought he was speaking metaphorically. If they had, if they mistook what he said, why no correction?

On other occasions when there was confusion, Christ explained just what he meant (cf. Matt. 16:5–12). Here, where any misunderstanding would be fatal, there was no effort by Jesus to correct. Instead, he repeated himself for greater emphasis.

In John 6:60 we read: "Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, ‘This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?’" These were his disciples, people used to his remarkable ways. He warned them not to think carnally, but spiritually: "It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life" (John 6:63; cf. 1 Cor. 2:12–14).

But he knew some did not believe. (It is here, in the rejection of the Eucharist, that Judas fell away; look at John 6:64.) "After this, many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him" (John 6:66).

This is the only record we have of any of Christ’s followers forsaking him for purely doctrinal reasons. If it had all been a misunderstanding, if they erred in taking a metaphor in a literal sense, why didn’t he call them back and straighten things out? Both the Jews, who were suspicious of him, and his disciples, who had accepted everything up to this point, would have remained with him had he said he was speaking only symbolically.

But he did not correct these protesters. Twelve times he said he was the bread that came down from heaven; four times he said they would have "to eat my flesh and drink my blood." John 6 was an extended promise of what would be instituted at the Last Supper—and it was a promise that could not be more explicit. Or so it would seem to a Catholic. But what do Fundamentalists say?

Merely Figurative?

They say that in John 6 Jesus was not talking about physical food and drink, but about spiritual food and drink. They quote John 6:35: "Jesus said to them, ‘I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst.’" They claim that coming to him is bread, having faith in him is drink. Thus, eating his flesh and blood merely means believing in Christ.

But there is a problem with that interpretation. As Fr. John A. O’Brien explains, "The phrase ‘to eat the flesh and drink the blood,’ when used figuratively among the Jews, as among the Arabs of today, meant to inflict upon a person some serious injury, especially by calumny or by false accusation. To interpret the phrase figuratively then would be to make our Lord promise life everlasting to the culprit for slandering and hating him, which would reduce the whole passage to utter nonsense" (O’Brien, The Faith of Millions, 215). For an example of this use, see Micah 3:3.

Fundamentalist writers who comment on John 6 also assert that one can show Christ was speaking only metaphorically by comparing verses like John 10:9 ("I am the door") and John 15:1 ("I am the true vine"). The problem is that there is not a connection to John 6:35, "I am the bread of life." "I am the door" and "I am the vine" make sense as metaphors because Christ is like a door—we go to heaven through him—and he is also like a vine—we get our spiritual sap through him. But Christ takes John 6:35 far beyond symbolism by saying, "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed" (John 6:55).

He continues: "As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me" (John 6:57). The Greek word used for "eats" (trogon) is very blunt and has the sense of "chewing" or "gnawing." This is not the language of metaphor.

Their Main Argument

For Fundamentalist writers, the scriptural argument is capped by an appeal to John 6:63: "It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life." They say this means that eating real flesh is a waste. But does this make sense?

Are we to understand that Christ had just commanded his disciples to eat his flesh, then said their doing so would be pointless? Is that what "the flesh is of no avail" means? "Eat my flesh, but you’ll find it’s a waste of time"—is that what he was saying? Hardly.

The fact is that Christ’s flesh avails much! If it were of no avail, then the Son of God incarnated for no reason, he died for no reason, and he rose from the dead for no reason. Christ’s flesh profits us more than anyone else’s in the world. If it profits us nothing, so that the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ are of no avail, then "your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (1 Cor. 15:17b–18).

In John 6:63 "flesh profits nothing" refers to mankind’s inclination to think using only what their natural human reason would tell them rather than what God would tell them. Thus in John 8:15–16 Jesus tells his opponents: "You judge according to the flesh, I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone that judge, but I and he who sent me." So natural human judgment, unaided by God’s grace, is unreliable; but God’s judgment is always true.

And were the disciples to understand the line "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life" as nothing but a circumlocution (and a very clumsy one at that) for "symbolic"? No one can come up with such interpretations unless he first holds to the Fundamentalist position and thinks it necessary to find a rationale, no matter how forced, for evading the Catholic interpretation. In John 6:63 "flesh" does not refer to Christ’s own flesh—the context makes this clear—but to mankind’s inclination to think on a natural, human level. "The words I have spoken to you are spirit" does not mean "What I have just said is symbolic." The word "spirit" is never used that way in the Bible. The line means that what Christ has said will be understood only through faith; only by the power of the Spirit and the drawing of the Father (cf. John 6:37, 44–45, 65).

Paul Confirms This

Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?" (1 Cor. 10:16). So when we receive Communion, we actually participate in the body and blood of Christ, not just eat symbols of them. Paul also said, "Therefore whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. . . . For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself" (1 Cor. 11:27, 29). "To answer for the body and blood" of someone meant to be guilty of a crime as serious as homicide. How could eating mere bread and wine "unworthily" be so serious? Paul’s comment makes sense only if the bread and wine became the real body and blood of Christ.

What Did the First Christians Say?

Anti-Catholics also claim the early Church took this chapter symbolically. Is that so? Let’s see what some early Christians thought, keeping in mind that we can learn much about how Scripture should be interpreted by examining the writings of early Christians.

Ignatius of Antioch, who had been a disciple of the apostle John and who wrote a letter to the Smyrnaeans about A.D. 110, said, referring to "those who hold heterodox opinions," that "they abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again" (6:2, 7:1).

Forty years later, Justin Martyr, wrote, "Not as common bread or common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nourished, . . . is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66:1–20).

Origen, in a homily written about A.D. 244, attested to belief in the Real Presence. "I wish to admonish you with examples from your religion. You are accustomed to take part in the divine mysteries, so you know how, when you have received the Body of the Lord, you reverently exercise every care lest a particle of it fall and lest anything of the consecrated gift perish. You account yourselves guilty, and rightly do you so believe, if any of it be lost through negligence" (Homilies on Exodus 13:3).

Cyril of Jerusalem, in a catechetical lecture presented in the mid-300s, said, "Do not, therefore, regard the bread and wine as simply that, for they are, according to the Master’s declaration, the body and blood of Christ. Even though the senses suggest to you the other, let faith make you firm. Do not judge in this matter by taste, but be fully assured by faith, not doubting that you have been deemed worthy of the body and blood of Christ" (Catechetical Discourses: Mystagogic 4:22:9).

In a fifth-century homily, Theodore of Mopsuestia seemed to be speaking to today’s Evangelicals and Fundamentalists: "When [Christ] gave the bread he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my body,’ but, ‘This is my body.’ In the same way, when he gave the cup of his blood he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my blood,’ but, ‘This is my blood,’ for he wanted us to look upon the [Eucharistic elements], after their reception of grace and the coming of the Holy Spirit, not according to their nature, but to receive them as they are, the body and blood of our Lord" (Catechetical Homilies 5:1).

Unanimous Testimony

Whatever else might be said, the early Church took John 6 literally. In fact, there is no record from the early centuries that implies Christians doubted the constant Catholic interpretation. There exists no document in which the literal interpretation is opposed and only the metaphorical accepted.

Why do Fundamentalists and Evangelicals reject the plain, literal interpretation of John 6? For them, Catholic sacraments are out because they imply a spiritual reality—grace—being conveyed by means of matter. This seems to them to be a violation of the divine plan. For many Protestants, matter is not to be used, but overcome or avoided.

One suspects, had they been asked by the Creator their opinion of how to bring about mankind’s salvation, Fundamentalists would have advised him to adopt a different approach. How much cleaner things would be if spirit never dirtied itself with matter! But God approves of matter—he approves of it because he created it—and he approves of it so much that he comes to us under the appearances of bread and wine, just as he does in the physical form of the Incarnate Christ.


TOPICS: Apologetics; History; Theology
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To: daniel1212

I didn’t ask you.


41 posted on 03/10/2015 4:05:37 AM PDT by 9thLife ("Life is a military endeavor..." -- Pope Francis)
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To: daniel1212

Do you believe the Genesis account of Creation?


42 posted on 03/10/2015 4:07:04 AM PDT by 9thLife ("Life is a military endeavor..." -- Pope Francis)
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To: Mark17

Yeah, and from the content, one acid trip.


43 posted on 03/10/2015 5:11:52 AM PDT by xone
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To: daniel1212; NKP_Vet
>>One sanctioned Catholic work even states, “The supreme power of the priestly office is the power of consecrating...Indeed, it is equal to that of Jesus Christ...When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man...Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary [who is said to be all but almighty herself]...The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priest's command.” - (John A. O'Brien, Ph.D., LL.D., The Faith of Millions, 255-256 , O'Brien. Nihtt obstat: Rev. Lawrence Gollner, Censor Librorum Imprimatur: Leo A. Pursley, Bishop of Fort Wayne,-South Bend, March 16, 1974<<

Do Catholics read and believe this garbage?

44 posted on 03/10/2015 5:13:04 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

I believed it at one point in my life.


45 posted on 03/10/2015 5:47:26 AM PDT by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: 9thLife
Do you believe the Genesis account of Creation?

Yes, unlike what RC scholarship has been teaching multitudes for decades right in your own NAB Bible. Why would you not believe as they do?

Yet creation does not correspond to the neoplatonic theory of transubstantiation Rome decrees as fact, which would be a novel miracle, as would physically eating anything literal to obtain spiritual life, which is also pagan.

Br. Dennis Beach, OSB, is a monk of St. John’s Abbey since 1981. His doctorate in philosophy is from Penn Stat e:

I think it is technically right but quite misleading to say that transubstantiation is independent of Aristotelian Metaphysics. Yes, the use of the term “transubstantiation” antedates Aquinas by a good century or more. Aquinas is mid-13th century, and the 4th Lateran Council in 1215 already used the verb “transubstantiated” in a way that shows it was generally accepted well before William of Moerbeke began making literal translations of Aristotle available to Aquinas. However, I would argue that the Neoplatonic embrace of substance metaphysics means that Aristotle is tacitly present in any account of “substance” after the 4th century BCE. And Neoplatonic thought or at least conceptual terms are clearly interwoven with Christian theology long before the 13th century. One cannot disentangle Aristotle from Christian theological categories simply by identifying Aristotle with Aquinas.

It also seems disingenuous to claim that “All that is required, philosophically, to affirm transubstantiation is to accept that there is a distinction to be made between the identity of something and its appearance.” The doctrine of transubstantiation completely reverses the usual distinction between being and appearance, where being is held to be unchanging and appearance is constantly changing. Transubstantiation maintains instead that being or substance changes while appearance remains unchanged. Such reversals in the order of things are affronts to reason and require much, not little, to affirm philosophically. Moreover, transubstantiation seem to go far beyond the simple distinction between appearance and reality. It would be one thing if the body and blood of Christ simply appeared to be bread and wine. But I don’t think that is what is claimed with “transubstantiation.”

The claim that “substance” in the doctrine of transubstantiation is a common-sense concept, somehow independent of Aristotle’s purportedly esoteric and arcane philosophizing, is also a red herring. Aristotle picked up just such common-sense concepts as “what-it-is-to-be-X” and tried to explain rather complex philosophical problems with them. Thus, to take a “common-sense” concept like substance–even if one could maintain that it were somehow purified of Aristotelian provenance—and have it do paradoxical conceptual gymnastics in order to explain transubstantiation seems not to be not so anti-Aristotelian in spirit after all... - http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2010/05/30/transubstantiation-and-aristotle-warning-heavy-philosophy/

And,

In Sacred Games: A History of Christian Worship Bernhard Lang argues that, “When in late antiquity the religious elite of the Roman Empire rethought religion and ritual, the choice was not one between Mithraism and Christianity (as Ernest Renan suggested in the 19th century) but between pagan Neoplatonism and Neoplatonic Christianity.”

“In the third century CE, under the leadership of Plotinus, Plato’s philosophy enjoyed a renaissance that was to continue throughout late antiquity. This school of thought had much in common with Christianity: it believed in one God (the “One”), in the necessity of ritual, and in the saving contact with deities that were distinct from the ineffable One and stood closer to humanity. Like Judaism and Christianity, it also had its sacred books–the writings of Plato, and, in its later phase, also the Chaldean Oracles. In fact, major early Christian theologians–Origen, Augustine, Pseudo-Dionysus–can at the same time be considered major representatives of the Neoplatonic school of thought.” - http://www.patheos.com/blogs/cosmostheinlost/2014/04/08/early-churchs-choice-between-neoplatonism/

And from a past century,

"The influence of Greek ideas and usages upon the Christian church" But beyond matters of practice, it is among the Gnostics that there appears for the first time an attempt to realize the change of the elements to the material body and blood of Christ. The fact that they were so regarded is found in Justin Martyr.^ But at the same time, that the change was not vividly realized, is proved by the fact that, instead of being regarded as too awful for men to touch, the elements were taken by the com- municants to their homes and carried about with them on their travels. But we read of Marcus that in his realistic conception of the Eucharistic service the white wine actually turned to the colour of blood before the eyes of the communicants.^

Thus the whole conception of Christian worship was changed. 2 But it was changed by the influence upon Christian worship of the contemporary worship of the mysteries and the concurrent cults. The tendency to an elaborate ceremonial which had produced the magni- ficence of those mysteries and cults, and which had combined with the love of a purer faith and the tendency towards fellowship, was based upon a tendency of human nature which was not crushed by Christianity. It rose to a new life, and though it lives only by a survival, it lives that new life still. In the splendid ceremonial of Eastern and "Western worship, in the blaze of lights, in the separation of the central point of the rite from com- mon view, in the procession of torch-bearers chanting their sacred hymns - there is the survival, and in some cases the galvanized survival, of what I cannot find it in my heart to call a pagan ceremonial ; because though it was the expression of a less enlightened faith, yet it was offered to God from a heart that was not less earnest in its search for God and in its efiort after holiness than •our own. Hatch, Edwin, 1835-1889, "The influence of Greek ideas and usages upon the Christian church;" pp. 308-09 https://archive.org/stream/influenceofgreek00hatc/influenceofgreek00hatc_djvu.txt

46 posted on 03/10/2015 5:50:53 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: xone

I guess we will have to wait another year for another post, huh?


47 posted on 03/10/2015 5:51:45 AM PDT by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: CynicalBear
Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priest's command.

Do Catholics read and believe this garbage?

It has the stamps so they can.

48 posted on 03/10/2015 5:52:19 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: 9thLife
I didn’t ask you.

Regardless, this is called a forum, in which others may answer you, even if the refutation is not welcomed.

49 posted on 03/10/2015 5:53:39 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: CynicalBear

“Do Catholics read and believe this garbage”

Are you atheist? Sure sounds like the vast majority of atheists I have known.


50 posted on 03/10/2015 6:00:38 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet; CynicalBear; daniel1212
I doubt whether any atheist would appeal to Scripture to refute it as they do.

It violate Scripture. It violates the Nicene Creed. It violates the Incarnation. It violates the communicatio idiomatum or the two natures of Christ united in one Person. It actually is a bizarre reversal of the communicatio idiomatum

Not that it will matter to anyone infallibly interpreting and subscribing to Roman teachings.

</rant>

Cordially

51 posted on 03/10/2015 9:15:15 AM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: daniel1212; All

It is a shame that someone that doesn’t believe in God’s word about the Eucharist has to denigrate the Word of GOD as pagan.

I question whether you really understand how Jesus showed us how to Love God and our neighbor.


52 posted on 03/10/2015 3:07:54 PM PDT by ADSUM
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To: ADSUM; daniel1212
>>It is a shame that someone that doesn’t believe in God’s word about the Eucharist has to denigrate the Word of GOD as pagan.<<

We've been trying to show the Catholics the truth about it for a long time now. They still insist Jesus sinned by eating blood and causing others to do so. A shame for sure.

53 posted on 03/10/2015 3:18:10 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: ADSUM; CynicalBear
It is a shame that someone that doesn’t believe in God’s word about the Eucharist has to denigrate the Word of GOD as pagan. I question whether you really understand how Jesus showed us how to Love God and our neighbor.

Rather, it is shameful to promote anything as being God's word when it is inconsistent with it, and instead the likes of it are found in paganism. You simply will not find any believer in the Bible physically eating any literal food to obtain spiritual life, but which believing the gospel message does, thanks be to God.

As love for God and neighbor Scripturally is in that order, and thus includes reproof of error in word or deed, a Christ exampled, and which I myself have been subject to, then it must be questioned this it if one really understands how Jesus showed us how to Love God and our neighbor.

54 posted on 03/10/2015 4:58:01 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
Do you believe the Genesis account of Creation? Yes

OK. How did God make man?

55 posted on 03/10/2015 5:12:07 PM PDT by 9thLife ("Life is a military endeavor..." -- Pope Francis)
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To: 9thLife
OK. How did God make man?

Simple. Unlike transubstantiation, God created man,

out of nothing,

with a body of flesh and blood,

that remained fully flesh and blood in substance, not having any other substance,

and that could only be in one place at one time,

and that could not give spiritual qualities to anyone by eating it, nor was eating it a requirement or manifestly sanctioned,

and which housed a soul and a spirit, which transcend the body and can exist separate from it.

Thus you have no argument by analogy. Your only argument for this unique act of transubstantiation is that God can do anything, but it remains that this has no correspondence to any other miracle in Scripture, as Catholic theologians can tell you.

Nor is the theology of eating human flesh and or blood, or anything physical, to gain spiritual life consistent with Scripture, nor that of a separate class of believers distinctively entitled "priests"offering the Lord's supper as a sacrifice for sins as their primary function, while the language as metaphorical is consistent with Scripture, as is the metaphorical interpretation. And which is the only one that is!

Give it up.

56 posted on 03/10/2015 5:47:11 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Diamond

“It violates the Nicene Creed”

Catholics wrote the Nicene Creed.


57 posted on 03/10/2015 5:50:17 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: daniel1212; CynicalBear

Your comment; “Rather, it is shameful to promote anything as being God’s word when it is inconsistent with it, and instead the likes of it are found in paganism. You simply will not find any believer in the Bible physically eating any literal food to obtain spiritual life, but which believing the gospel message does, thanks be to God.”

There you go again, promoting your own erroneous view of God’s word with paganism. Then they (the alleged “believers”) do not accept the word of God and follow His will.

Perhaps you should consider the warning from St Paul in Timothy:

Warning against False Doctrine.

3* I repeat the request I made of you when I was on my way to Macedonia,c that you stay in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to teach false doctrines 4* or to concern themselves with myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the plan of God that is to be received by faith.d

5The aim of this instruction is love from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.e

6Some people have deviated from these and turned to meaningless talk,

7wanting to be teachers of the law, but without understanding either what they are saying or what they assert with such assurance.

I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and an arrogant man, but I have been mercifully treated because I acted out of ignorance in my unbelief.


58 posted on 03/10/2015 8:56:21 PM PDT by ADSUM
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To: ADSUM
There you go again, promoting your own erroneous view of God’s word with paganism. Then they (the alleged “believers”) do not accept the word of God and follow His will.

There you go again, engaging in argument by assertion. In contrast, the evidence is what is against you. Indeed, Paul is the one you need to heed, "Neither give heed to fables," (1 Timothy 1:4) out of which Rome has made doctrines .

59 posted on 03/10/2015 9:08:26 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

Then stop spreading false doctrine. You can choose not to believe in God’s word with your contorted understanding of His word.

Catholics understand and appreciate for 2000 years the great gift and miracle that Jesus left us with His Body and Blood for our salvation.

You can continue to express your false views of God’s word, but it will not prevail against the teaching of the Catholic Church.


60 posted on 03/10/2015 9:24:38 PM PDT by ADSUM
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