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One detects a subtle arrogance not only of "possessing the correct theology" (unlike those Papists) but of a mistaken assurance that one is "eternally secure" and thus can commit any sin with impunity.

And just where on FR have you ever seen anyone advocate that now that we're saved we can commit any sin with impunity?

That charge is laid at the feet of Christians ONLY BY the RC's, who accuse us of believing that.

I have yet to see ONE poster advocate that. Perhaps you could point us to the post where someone has said that.

>>And just where on FR have you ever seen anyone advocate that now that we're saved we can commit any sin with impunity?<<

We never seem to get any documented evidence of that yet they repeatedly claim it. Curious that.

TJ: One detects a subtle arrogance not only of "possessing the correct theology" (unlike those Papists) but of a mistaken assurance that one is "eternally secure" and thus can commit any sin with impunity.

MM: And just where on FR have you ever seen anyone advocate that now that we're saved we can commit any sin with impunity?

That charge is laid at the feet of Christians ONLY BY the RC's, who accuse us of believing that.

I have yet to see ONE poster advocate that. Perhaps you could point us to the post where someone has said that.

Well of course this is a caricature. Again, what is surprising is how often it is used. I give the poster the benefit of the doubt, that they sincerely believe the evangelical/Protestant understanding of grace would lead to sin. Even the apostle Paul was aware of that potential misunderstanding of divine grace:

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? (2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Why did Paul have to issue that warning? Because it was possible for people even then, in the First Century, to read Paul's own theology of grace, and misunderstand it as suggesting sin no longer mattered one way or the other. As Paul says, and as every heart led by the Spirit of God would say, "God forbid." That's not where Paul's teaching on grace leads. We Protestants/evangelicals don't stop reading at the end of chapter 5. We keep reading. So we understand that even though by grace we have been legally declared "not guilty" by virtue of the blood of Christ paying the penalty for our sins, nevertheless we are, just as Paul says, dead to sin, hostile to sin, changed in our hearts and minds, so that what drives and motivates us is our desire to be as close to God as possible, to be as right with Him as possible, at all times and under all conditions.

So if even Paul had to warn people off of misconstruing grace, we are in pretty good company. We are teaching grace the way Paul taught it, so we are presented with the same objections Paul faced. I say that's a good thing. :)

As for arrogance, I find that charge fascinating. It is exactly the same charge I have faced my whole life when presenting Jesus to unbelievers. They say, "How arrogant of you to assert that Jesus is the only way of salvation. Surely there are many roads to Heaven, Buddha, Mohamed, ... etc etc etc" In this postmodern era, where there is no truth but the one truth that there is no truth, any assertion of definite, absolute truth comes across as arrogant. How else could it be viewed. If I were an unbeliever, I might very well see it the same way.

But it is particularly sad when it happens as between those who purport to be believers. It's perfectly fine that people come into the kingdom not up to speed on everything the Bible teaches, and when they look at Biblical theology they may have to work their way to a better understanding through discussion and even debate. Else why would the Ecclesia have need of believers with the spiritual gift of teaching? So we expect some differences of personal opinion among believers.

But truth excludes it's opposite. There is such a thing as false doctrine, and it is right to point it out. If we learn that the Bible really does teach one thing and not another, how can we be obedient to God if we do not give truth it's proper place? We obey the truth, and are charged with arrogance. By nearly everybody. But if we are being obedient to God, we have to let those charges roll off our back for the insignificant thing they are.

Peace,

SR

“...charge laid only by RC’s...commit any sin with impunity...”

It was the founder of protestant doctrine and tradition (Luther) himself who wrote that sola fida means that one can now sin with impunity.

Luther wrote:

“If adultery could be committed in faith, it would not be a sin” and

“Sin boldly ...”

Once saved always saved is NEVER mentioned in the bible. To return to the topic, that is the reason that in the Lord’s prayer we ask our Father to forgive us our trespasses because we are in ongoing need of forgiveness, not because we are already saved.

In fact the opposite is true: Hebrews 6:4-8

For fellow Catholics: I have been saved (Romans 8:24) I am being saved (2 Cor 2:15) and I hope to be saved (Romans 5:9-10). Salvation is a process that requires cooperation, not a done deal. The Catholic position accurately accounts for ALL of the scriptures on the topic, not just one or two.

The best examples are Judas and Satan himself, both who believed, sinned and most definitely are NOT saved. Lucifer is still in hell, and most likely Judas, although we don’t know definitively who is in hell because we are not God.

Is the response that they somehow weren’t saved to begin with? This is not very comforting, since we all sin and so must now constantly question whether we really were saved, especially if the sin is serious.

That is why confession was instituted. John 20:21-23

Hang on, I think there was a cult in Asia that believed that... of course they were a criminal enterprise....

And just where on FR have you ever seen anyone advocate that now that we're saved we can commit any sin with impunity? That charge is laid at the feet of Christians ONLY BY the RC's, who accuse us of believing that. I have yet to see ONE poster advocate that. Perhaps you could point us to the post where someone has said that.

I think you need to take into account that this is from a poster whom i have never seen posting on the RF till i quickly searched just now, yet he states has "a Ph.D. in Theology from a Jesuit University, and my B.A. and M.A. from well-known Evangelical colleges" who believes in salvation by faith, but who also sees believe that “faith without works is dead.”

Which is what Reformers preached , and evangelicals far more testify to than the fruit of Rome , yet in reflection of society ever our faith has become more superficial than in Scripture.

Moreover, sadly tjd1454 apparently does not see Rome as an adversary of real salvific faith, unlike reformers and so many founders of American, and imagines we can have a united from with elitist coreligionists as we supposedly have a "shared faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior," which itself is a form of declension. And i need to be stronger in faith and love for God, souls and the Truth.