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To: CpnHook
Your exegesis sounds good ... if you ignore what the question was in the previous verse ...

John 6:28 - Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"

If you have to do the works as part of your salvation ... then there can never be pure motives in doing them ... there is always a selfish aspect to it. You do them because you have to ... without them you don't make it.

Freedom in Christ is doing the works knowing we don't have to ... we want to ... we want to share the gospel with others, we want to study the scriptures, we want to help the poor ... not because we must ... but because we can now do it without selfish motives ... our motives at least have the potential to be selfless.

39 posted on 02/23/2015 4:31:18 PM PST by dartuser
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To: dartuser; .45 Long Colt
If you have to do the works as part of your salvation ... then there can never be pure motives in doing them ... there is always a selfish aspect to it. You do them because you have to ... without them you don't make it. Freedom in Christ is doing the works knowing we don't have to ... we want to ... we want to share the gospel with others, we want to study the scriptures, we want to help the poor ... not because we must ... but because we can now do it without selfish motives ... our motives at least have the potential to be selfless.

I agree. I often wonder, if those who truly believe that their works MUST be added to faith in order for one to be saved, what percentage they imagine those two make up. Is salvation based on a balance between 50% faith and 50% works? is it 70% - 30%, 30% - 70%, 25% - 75%??? At what point do they come to where they think they have done enough works to merit/qualify/earn heaven? And, lastly, is trusting in ones' works contributing to ones' salvation at any point really trusting in Jesus Christ as Savior or is it more about ones' own efforts and what God "owes" them?

It seems to me that Scripture is abundantly clear that we cannot save ourselves and if not for God's gift of eternal life by His grace, we would be destitute and forever at enmity with Him. Why would God use words like "grace" and "gift" if we must work for or earn eternal life?

59 posted on 02/23/2015 7:10:58 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: dartuser
Your exegesis sounds good ... if you ignore what the question was in the previous verse ...
John 6:28 - Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"

Though Jesus takes that question and rephrases it, does He not? He changes it from "what shall WE do . . the works (plural) of God" to "this is the work (singular) of God." Now, this is hardly the only instance in the Gospels of Jesus doing this sort of thing. But you seemingly haven't appreciated that He does it here, too, nor to consider why he modifies their question.

In any event, John's Chapter 6 has NOTHING to do with understanding what Paul says in Romans 2. Different audiences; different subject matter; different context.

If you have to do the works as part of your salvation ... then there can never be pure motives in doing them ... there is always a selfish aspect to it.

Not if one understands that what we do for good is SOLELY on account of God. I disagree that the motive in all cases is a selfish one. I think it ENTIRELY possible to give the glory to God (as we should).

Freedom in Christ is doing the works knowing we don't have to ... we want to ... we want to share the gospel with others, we want to study the scriptures, we want to help the poor ... not because we must ... but because we can now do it without selfish motives ... our motives at least have the potential to be selfless.

Please explain "we don't have to" in light of the parables of the lazy steward and the sheep and the goats in Matt. 25. What you say and what Scripture illustrates are here two seemingly different things.

66 posted on 02/24/2015 4:21:08 PM PST by CpnHook
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