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To: .45 Long Colt; stonehouse01
The Scriptures are very clear that salvation can’t be both by grace and works because grace is antithetical to works.

And that statement is true - or not -- depending on how one understands Paul's use of "works" in the particular context.

Scripture tells us that salvation is by grace alone.. .

And Catholics agree . . .

and works are merely the fruit of what God does in us

"Merely" here is both unnecessary and perhaps a bit misleading; but, again, Catholics agree that works that are meritorious are so by virtue of God's grace.

and not the means for meriting eternal life.

Here's where things get a bit more complicated and where you have some 'splainin' to do. For example, Paul, following His teacher Jesus Christ, says that eternal life is rendered in accordance with "works."

6 For [God] will render to every man according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. Rom. 2:6-8 (compare Matt. 16:27, 25:31ff).

Paul here clearly draws a direct correlation between "works" and the receipt of "eternal life." The key is understanding how "works" here are differentiated from "works" or "works of the law" as used in other verses.

Grace and works simply cannot mix in any way when we consider the grounds of our justification before the Lord.

To the contrary, unless one "mixes" them on some order, the result is the need to deny or twist beyond recognition verses like the one I just cited. One advantage of Catholic soteriology is I can read verses like this one pretty much directly (just paying heed to proper understanding). I find the "faith alone" crowd has to do backflips here.

If works are required, salvation becomes a reward that our Creator is obligated to give us and not a gift that is wholly unmerited by us.

Unless the reward of eternal life is understood as God simply being faithful to His own promises, rather than creating a type of legal obligation.

30 posted on 02/23/2015 3:45:28 PM PST by CpnHook
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To: CpnHook

We will have to agree to disagree


31 posted on 02/23/2015 3:48:38 PM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: CpnHook; .45 Long Colt; stonehouse01
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
32 posted on 02/23/2015 3:51:56 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CpnHook; .45 Long Colt; stonehouse01
Unless the reward of eternal life is understood as God simply being faithful to His own promises, rather than creating a type of legal obligation.

God created the "legal" obligation when He said that He would not "impute" a man's sins to his account and would, instead, impute the righteousness of Christ through faith.

    Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

      Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


    Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (Romans 4:6-12)

Eternal life is not a reward for works we do, but an act of grace and mercy by God. He gives to us eternal life as a gift and we receive that gift by faith. It is then that we learn how to walk in righteousness and holiness through the indwelling Holy Spirit - which genuine faith gives us. It is then that we can produce the kind of fruit that truly honors and glorifies God and not ourselves. We have been freed from the slavery to sin and its hold and can walk in newness of life through the new spirit nature.

    For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:20-23)


61 posted on 02/23/2015 7:34:09 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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