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To: RnMomof7
They mock salvation by faith alone...

So does the Bible. That has to count for something if the Bible is the sole rule of faith, right?

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. --James 2:24
The phrase, "faith alone," is mentioned once in the Bible, and James 2:24 is it.

We also mock Luther's tradition of Sola Scriptura because it's not taught by the Church nor contained in the Bible. The Bible tells us to reject false human traditions like "faith alone" and "Scripture alone."

"Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down." --Mark 7:13

You should "listen to the church," as Christ commands, because it is "the pillar and foundation of truth," as St. Paul tells us.

34 posted on 02/16/2015 1:21:15 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; RnMomof7
The phrase, "faith alone," is mentioned once in the Bible, and James 2:24 is it. Thus the Trinity must be disallowed, as that word never appears, while the fact that Scripture plainly declares font color="#0047ff">"to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works...," (Romans 4:5-6)

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast," (Ephesians 2:8-9)

then as regards what actually appropriates justification, in which the heart believes unto righteousness, (Rm. 10:10a) and with God "purifying their hearts by faith," (Acts 15:9) as "whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins," even before baptism, (Acts 10:43,47) then "faith alone" is clearly a concept that is taught by Scripture.

For while Abraham had done good works before Gn. 15:6, yet when faced with something he simply could not do, Scripture plainly states that "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." (Romans 4:3)

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the unGodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:4-5)

Nor does Rm. 4 simply exclude works of the Law, as Eph. 2:8,9 and Titus 3:5 do not refer to simply these, but the use of the Law is because "if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." (Galatians 3:21)

But what is not taught is the strawman RCs rely upon, that the faith which is salvific is one which does not effect obedience, which is contrary to what Reformers taught, while it is RCs who most evidence they believe faith without works is alive.

This is what I have often said, if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit. If the tree is green and good, it will not cease to blossom forth in leaves and fruit. It does this by nature. I need not first command it and say: Look here, tree, bear apples. For if the tree is there and is good, the fruit will follow unbidden. If faith is present works must follow.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:340-341]

“We must therefore most certainly maintain that where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both.” [Martin Luther, as cited by Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1963], 246, footnote 99]

In those therefore in whom we cannot realize good works, we can immediately say and conclude: they heard of faith, but it did not sink into good soil. For if you continue in pride and lewdness, in greed and anger, and yet talk much of faith, St. Paul will come and say, 1 Cor. 4:20, look here my dear Sir, "the kingdom of God is not in word but in power." It requires life and action, and is not brought about by mere talk.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:341-342]

“This is why St. Luke and St. James have so much to say about works, so that one says: Yes, I will now believe, and then he goes and fabricates for himself a fictitious delusion, which hovers only on the lips as the foam on the water. No, no; faith is a living and an essential thing, which makes a new creature of man, changes his spirit and wholly and completely converts him. It goes to the foundation and there accomplishes a renewal of the entire man; so, if I have previously seen a sinner, I now see in his changed conduct, manner and life, that he believes. So high and great a thing is faith.”[Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:341]

James also invokes Gn. 15:6 in teaching that "by works a man is justified, and not by faith only," (James 2:24) which would be a contradiction of both Moses and Paul. if James speaking of being justified in the same sense.

But while Paul is dealing with what actually appropriates justification, the merit of works or faith being counted as righteousness (yet not as merely being a white washed sinner, but one whose heart is purified by faith), James is dealing with the manner of faith that justifies, and which must be the kind of faith which effects obedience.

And which faith justifies one as being a saved soul, not a hearer only. For as Paul says, "not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified," (Romans 2:13) as it is the doers of the Law - who seek to fulfill the righteousness of the law - that manifest they have real justifying faith But it is not the merit of their works which appropriate justification, but faith is counted for righteousness, as man could never become good enough to be with God.

In contrast, under Roman soteriology, God justifieth the Godly, as one is "formally justified and made holy by his own personal justice and holiness,” (Catholic Encyclopedia>Sanctifying Grace) normally initially "infused" via regeneration effected by the act itself of sprinkling of water (ex opere operato), thus at that point the newly baptized is fit to enter Heaven. Thus Abraham must have become born again in Gn. 15:6.

However, due to failure to maintain this and as justification is based one one's own holiness, then under the Roman system of salvation, the RC (the EOs reject the purgatory of Rome) typically must endure postmortem "purifying torments" for an indeterminate time in purgatory until they atone for sins and once again become good enough to enter Heaven.

The Bible tells us to reject false human traditions like "faith which is alone" and "Scripture alone is to be used, and contains all there is to know," as per RC strawmen recently dealt with - again. Or that The word of God/the Lord was normally written, even if sometimes first being spoken, and that as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. As is abundantly evidenced

And which testifies (Lk. 24:27,44; Acts 17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23, etc.) to writings of God being recognized and established as being so (essentially due to their unique and enduring heavenly qualities and attestation), and thus they materially provide for a canon of Scripture (as well as for reason, the church, etc.)

But not a multitude of RC things not seen in the NT church .

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. (Mark 7:13)

You should "listen to the church," as Christ commands,.

And just where does Christ command always heeding the magisterium over Scripture, versus teaching that the authoritative magisterium can err, and point souls to Scripture as the supreme and sure standard for Truth?

because it is "the pillar and foundation of truth," as St. Paul tells us

And just where does this text (1Tim. 3:15) teach that ekklēsia zaō theos stulos kai hedraiōma ho/hē/to alētheia (church living God pillar and ground the truth) mean that the church is the supreme infallible standard for Truth, as perpetual magisterial infallibility is essential for the preservation of the Truth and faith? Which is what your admonishment infers.

Where do we see this as God's established means in Scripture, and where is this text infallibly defined as meaning what you have it mean?

And if it is not, then it is disputable, and relying on it is contrary to the Roman ethos, which censures relying on one's own interpretation in ascertaining Truth, versus looking to Rome apart from which we are told we cannot even know for sure what Scripture consists of, let alone mean.

44 posted on 02/16/2015 3:36:04 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; daniel1212
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. --James 2:24
The phrase, "faith alone," is mentioned once in the Bible, and James 2:24 is it.

You may want to reconsider mocking Luther

The Roman Catholic writer Joseph A. Fitzmyer points out that Luther was not the only one to translate Romans 3:28 with the word “alone.”

At 3:28 Luther introduced the adv. “only” into his translation of Romans (1522), “alleyn durch den Glauben” (WAusg 7.38); cf. Aus der Bibel 1546, “alleine durch den Glauben” (WAusg, DB 7.39); also 7.3-27 (Pref. to the Epistle). See further his Sendbrief vom Dolmetschen, of 8 Sept. 1530 (WAusg 30.2 [1909], 627-49; “On Translating: An Open Letter” [LuthW 35.175-202]). Although “alleyn/alleine” finds no corresponding adverb in the Greek text, two of the points that Luther made in his defense of the added adverb were that it was demanded by the context and that sola was used in the theological tradition before him.

Robert Bellarmine listed eight earlier authors who used sola (Disputatio de controversiis: De justificatione 1.25 [Naples: G. Giuliano, 1856], 4.501-3):

Origen, Commentarius in Ep. ad Romanos, cap. 3 (PG 14.952).

Hilary, Commentarius in Matthaeum 8:6 (PL 9.961).

Basil, Hom. de humilitate 20.3 (PG 31.529C).

Ambrosiaster, In Ep. ad Romanos 3.24 (CSEL 81.1.119): “sola fide justificati sunt dono Dei,” through faith alone they have been justified by a gift of God; 4.5 (CSEL 81.1.130).

John Chrysostom, Hom. in Ep. ad Titum 3.3 (PG 62.679 [not in Greek text]).

Cyril of Alexandria, In Joannis Evangelium 10.15.7 (PG 74.368 [but alludes to Jas 2:19]).

Bernard, In Canticum serm. 22.8 (PL 183.881): “solam justificatur per fidem,” is justified by faith alone.

Theophylact, Expositio in ep. ad Galatas 3.12-13 (PG 124.988).


To these eight Lyonnet added two others (Quaestiones, 114-18):

Theodoret, Affectionum curatio 7 (PG 93.100; ed. J. Raeder [Teubner], 189.20-24).

Thomas Aquinas, Expositio in Ep. I ad Timotheum cap. 1, lect. 3 (Parma ed., 13.588): “Non est ergo in eis [moralibus et caeremonialibus legis] spes iustificationis, sed in sola fide, Rom. 3:28: Arbitramur justificari hominem per fidem, sine operibus legis” (Therefore the hope of justification is not found in them [the moral and ceremonial requirements of the law], but in faith alone, Rom 3:28: We consider a human being to be justified by faith, without the works of the law). Cf. In ep. ad Romanos 4.1 (Parma ed., 13.42a): “reputabitur fides eius, scilicet sola sine operibus exterioribus, ad iustitiam”; In ep. ad Galatas 2.4 (Parma ed., 13.397b): “solum ex fide Christi” [Opera 20.437, b41]).

See further:

Theodore of Mopsuestia, In ep. ad Galatas (ed. H. B. Swete), 1.31.15.

Marius Victorinus (ep. Pauli ad Galatas (ed. A. Locher), ad 2.15-16: “Ipsa enim fides sola iustificationem dat-et sanctificationem” (For faith itself alone gives justification and sanctification); In ep. Pauli Ephesios (ed. A. Locher), ad 2.15: “Sed sola fides in Christum nobis salus est” (But only faith in Christ is salvation for us).

Augustine, De fide et operibus, 22.40 (CSEL 41.84-85): “licet recte dici possit ad solam fidem pertinere dei mandata, si non mortua, sed viva illa intellegatur fides, quae per dilectionem operatur” (Although it can be said that God’s commandments pertain to faith alone, if it is not dead [faith], but rather understood as that live faith, which works through love”). Migne Latin Text: Venire quippe debet etiam illud in mentem, quod scriptum est, In hoc cognoscimus eum, si mandata ejus servemus. Qui dicit, Quia cognovi eum, et mandata ejus non servat, mendax est, et in hoc veritas non est (I Joan. II, 3, 4). Et ne quisquam existimet mandata ejus ad solam fidem pertinere: quanquam dicere hoc nullus est ausus, praesertim quia mandata dixit, quae ne multitudine cogitationem spargerent [Note: [Col. 0223] Sic Mss. Editi vero, cogitationes parerent.], In illis duobus tota Lex pendet et Prophetae (Matth. XXII, 40): licet recte dici possit ad solam fidem pertinere Dei mandata, si non mortua, sed viva illa intelligatur fides, quae per dilectionem operatur; tamen postea Joannes ipse aperuit quid diceret, cum ait: Hoc est mandatum ejus, ut credamus nomini Filii ejus Jesu Christi, et diligamns invicem (I Joan. III, 23) See De fide et operibus, Cap. XXII, §40, PL 40:223.

Source: Joseph A. Fitzmyer Romans, A New Translation with introduction and Commentary, The Anchor Bible Series (New York: Doubleday, 1993) 360-361.

Even some Catholic versions of the New Testament also translated Romans 3:28 as did Luther. The Nuremberg Bible (1483), “allein durch den glauben” and the Italian Bibles of Geneva (1476) and of Venice (1538) say “per sola fede.”

47 posted on 02/16/2015 4:11:36 PM PST by RnMomof7
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