Obama: "No god condones terror."

2/10/2015 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

[avenir]

Excellent explanation.

[Smokin' Joe]

Are we sure there wasn’t a comma in between “No” and “god”? Parsed that way, that Allah worshipper would have made a statement which would fit his likely deity.

[21twelve]

I would disagree as well. The Bible is full of accounts where God punishes the wicked. Either through divine things such as fire and brimstone (Sodom and Gommorah) and the flood. In several accounts he also showed his mercy in delaying judgement, or letting people like Lot try to ease up on the judgement (”What if I found 10 good people, then will you spare them?) He also used his people the Jews to clear out the Holy Land of evil by war and slaughter. And, when the Jews became wicked, He used the Babylonians to bring judgement on the Jews.

How God deals with the wicked and sinners after Jesus came and died is a whole different deal though I think. While Christians should be in the nations’ armies and protect their citizens, allies, etc. (like in the Crusades), the Christian viewpoint as a whole is not to exact judgement on evil people, but to attempt to save them. (Christianity as a group. It does not exclude a Christian from being a soldier, a sniper in a war, a prosecuting attorney, a Judge, etc.)

Of course to the Liberals they draw no distinction between a soldier serving his country and a suicide plane pilot crashing into the Twin Towers.

God, in the end, will enact a terrible period of “terror” on the wicked and evil that do not repent. As He should. (Which is different than indiscriminate terrorist attacks on innocent people.) He might even be carrying a sign that says “No Justice, No Peace”.

[21twelve]

I should remember to read all of the posts! You said it much better than I did in 43.

[logos]

“No god” implies a multiplicity of gods. How many gods does Obama believe exist?

[Biggirl]

Allah = SATAN.

[daniel1212]

Thanks. Did a comparison myself by God’s grace. http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/JESUS.Vs.Muhammad.html

[daniel1212]

According the the Bible God told them to kill every man, woman and child in Jericho.

Not only, But see 38

God can engage in terror as He did in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, whose leaders also could have assumed that no god would do that, and in the Flood. And other events. Even insurance companies need to allow for such. But to say this was wrong presumes that God had no just reason, and does not make it work out for good for those who love Good, and thus God.

God also commanded His people to engage in acts of terror, but as said, this was not some dream in the night, but in a context in which God had made it so unmistakable manifest that He was speaking to them that there could be no rational atheists (not that some would not persist in attributing them collectively to natural causes), though that did not prevent Israel from acting practically as atheists! As we do sometimes.

And as God is sovereign, He allows the devil to steal, kill and destroy, as He did in the case of Job, whose protests were answered with a series of rhetorical questions that had one conclusion, "Since I created the Heavens and earth - without your help - you need to trust Me that I know what I am doing." And God blessed the latter end of contrite Job (who prayed for his theologically challenged accusative "friends") more than the beginning, replacing that which was taken with even more and better.

Meanwhile, the devil wanted Job to curse God and die, likely by committing suicide, and which is what the devil wants all to do in seeking to exalt himself. Who as he did with Eve, basically presents himself in the person of others as a savior from an unjust God (who would not "share the wealth" with Eve, or with the devil in his occupy the throne movement). And which he does thru militant angry atheists as Dawkins etc.

Or he presents his self-serving proxy servants as saviors from from those "oppressors" who represent God's rule, esp. in the sense of benefits and position being acquired by merit - which the devil in his "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God... I will be like the most High" (Is. 14:13,14) rebelled against. And thus in God's economy what is realized under mercy and grace are just that, fostering a positive response of gratitude toward betterment, and versus such being a right due to the demonic victim-entitlement mentality, which the devil worked to seduce Eve with. But i digress.

Yet paradoxically, the charges of Divine injustice by angry militant atheists are due to the moral sense of justice which man at least initially has, out of which comes a sense of outrage at the seemingly senseless degree of suffering in the world. But to charge God, as God, with this is to presume that the one who gives life cannot take it, and omniscience, that in the light of eternity this cannot be just and that it works out for good.

(Also charges that God is self serving in requiring worship is absurd, as God needs nothing, (Acts 17:25) while making God your ultimate object of spiritual affection and allegiance and source of security is what is right and what is best for man, versus finite created beings or things.)

And it also is to presume an alternative.

God could have,

• 1. made us (and angels) with no moral standard or sense or deprived us from the moral ability to respond to or choose good [morally insensible].

• 2. granted us free moral agency, but never have given us anything to choose between [negation of moral choices].

• 3. called man to make the Creator their ultimate object of spiritual affection and allegiance and source of security is what is right and what is best for man, versus finite created beings or things, and provided moral revelation and influences. But always have moved us to do good, and never have allowed us to choose evil (such as make believing in God and choosing good so utterly compelling — like God appearing daily and doing miracles on demand, and preventing any seeming evidence to the contrary so that no man could attempt excuses [effective negation of any freedom to choose].

• 4. allowed us to do evil, but immediately reversed any effects [negation of moral consequences].

• 5. allowed us to do bad, but restricted us to a place where it would harm no one but ourselves [restriction of moral consequences].

• 6. allowed us to choose between good and evil, and to affect others by it, but not ultimately reward or punish us accordingly [negation of eternal consequences, positive or negative].

• 7. given us the ability to choose, and alternatives to chose from, and to face and overcome evil or be overcome by it, with the ability to effect others and things by our choices, and to exercise some reward or punishment in this life for morality, and ultimately reward or punishment all accordingly [pure justice].

• 8. restrained evil to some degree, while making the evil that man does to work out for the good of those who want good, and who thus love God, who is good.

• 9. in accordance with 8, the Creator could have chose to manifest Himself in the flesh, and by Him to provide man a means of escaping the ultimate retribution of Divine justice, and instead receive unmerited eternal favor, at God's own expense and credit, appropriated by a repentant obedient faith, in addition to the loss or gaining of certain rewards based on one's quality of work as a child of God. And eternally punish, to varying degrees, those whose response to God's revelation manifested they want evil, [justice maintained while mercy and grace given]. -http://www.conservapedia.com/Theodicy#Proposals

[circlecity]

"No god condones terror."

So, is Obama a polytheist? He seems to assume there is more than one god.

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

“Noah” was the fictional account of a real occurrence that was more limited in scope. Noah was the construct of priests in Babylon (from the JEDP construct) who drew upon the tale of Gilgamesh. The background for the tale of Gilgamesh has been proven by archaeological findings (and archeology has given us the location of Biblical cities of Jericho), and theses archaeological findings show that around 5,000 to 6,000 B.C. the world received around 10X as much rainfall as it does now, but meteorologically speaking the region of the world where the tale had its historical settings also had periods of drought that were followed by huge amounts of rainfall from time to time.

The person who actually lived and was chronicled in “Gilgamesh” lived at around 5-6,000 B.C. and preceded the writing of the book of Genesis by well over 3,500 years.

[MrB]

Sounds like he’s one of those “everyone defines God for themselves” idolaters.

[MrB]

He probably sees that like all leftists see forcing things on the unwilling - it’s for their own good and we know better.

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

In Deuteronomy 7:1-2 and 20:10-17, every man, woman and child was to be killed without mercy and no one that breathed was to be left alive.

Some radicals today say that their god allows them to do the same thing today that happened back then. Others may retort that their god is the true god, whereas the god of the Koran is false. In reply, these radicals could say that their god is the true god and on and on it goes. No God is blood thirsty or would ever condone or be behind what is said in those chapters in Deut. or in the Koran. God does not go by “might makes right.” Yes, the people living in the Promised land were degenerate, but God would never say kill the babies that lay in their mothers arms or condone it. Only a cruel god would say that. Thankfully, Moses did not write what was said in those verses in Deut. .

Truth be told, what was written down in those chapters in Deuteronomy came at a much later time by the hands of scribes through the JEDP format. God is not a blood thirsty god. Yes, there was an exodus, but it was no where near as large a multitude as the account in Exodus was have us believe, and the scribes who show us their handiwork through the Pentateuch as their are verses that follow right after others that show huge differences in syntax, style, format, content and so on.

Moses wrote much of the Pentateuch, but not all of it, scribes wrote parts later to justify the taking of the Promised land through a “by whatever means necessary” theology - and even most evangelical theological seminaries readily agree with this.

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

That was written by later scribes either in Jerusalem (J/E school) or by scribes later on (D) or by priests in Babylon (P - (JEDP). They did not come by the hand of Moses. There was an exodus but it was smaller than the Biblical account, and the same archeology that has backed up much of the OT has also shown this. You can't take what you want and discard the rest.

Those kinds of verses are like what we find in the Koran. Those verses said to kill everything that breathed and to show no mercy. No god would support what we find in some Suras and no god would support killing babies that lay in their mothers arms as the Jewish people occupied the Promised Land.

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

Any god that would condone killing children has to be a false god or the verses/Suras that condone doing this could not have come from the real God but were written by the mere hands of men.

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

No god would support the killing of children or babies as they lay in their mothers arms. No verse/Sura that says to do this could ever come from God, but were obviously from the hands of men who dared to write such barbarity! Moses wrote much of the Pentateuch, but some verses came later by the hands of men. Many if not most seminaries believe that Moses did not write all of the Pentateuch, but that scribes and priests (in the JEDP format) wrote a lot of the Pentateuch as well. God was not behind these verses nor behind any barbaric Suras either

[CynicalBear]

>>God was not behind these verses<<

Prove it.

[21twelve]

“In Deuteronomy 7:1-2 and 20:10-17, every man, woman and child was to be killed without mercy and no one that breathed was to be left alive.”

Interestingly, the Jews did NOT follow God’s commands and allowed many to live. (I think they were supposed to wipe out all of their animals too.)

And sadly, by allowing them to live, the Jews picked up the bad practice of worshipping false idols (and iirc human sacrifices too).

God gave the Jews chance after chance to repent, but they didn’t. God then allowed the evil Babylonian empire to take over Israel, killing untold numbers and taking most others back to Babylon.

But, once the Jews were freed after 400 years or whatever it was - they had learned their lesson. They never had a problem with idolatry again.

[Raycpa]

Why assume its a real occurrence?

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

In the end, the onus (burden) of proof is upon the one who believes it to be true to prove this. You.

But, there are radicals in other religions today who would say the same as you are here.

I, OTOH, say that both are wrong, and that the real God was not behind any barbaric Sura in the Koran nor behind and barbaric verse in the Pentateuch. Both are the result of mere men writing what they wanted to believe, and not form the hand of a loving God.

Yes, Moses did write some of the Pentateuch, but not all.