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To: ebb tide

I don’t know the context of all of those quotations, so I can’t say definitively yes or no.

However, except for the first, and again, without knowing the context I see no problem, and here is why.

Excluding the first.

2. I have no problem with the Church reaffirming the Jews are the Chosen people. I don’t know the context of the rest of the statement.

3. 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330, and 843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”332

If Muslims of good will, truly seeking the Living God, fast, pray, and give alms, those are good things.

4. Every man is truly an image of God, and thus has virtues given to him by God. Like all people, atheists are sinners. They may lack the gift of faith, or they may be actively rebelling against God. Only God knows and judges accordingly. Our goal in preaching the Gospel to those of hard heart, is remind them of God’s love, encourage them to do good, pray for them, and give them to God and His mercy.

5. Again, if someone approaches God honestly, and in the best way they know how, will he punish them? Rather, as we all seek God, whether we have the grace of the sacraments, or lack them, God always calls us to himself. We pray all people come to God through Jesus and receive His sacraments, however, we don’t give up on those who don’t appear to be following that path.


41 posted on 01/31/2015 8:44:27 AM PST by SpirituTuo
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To: SpirituTuo

2. The Catholic Church had never preached the salvation of Jews outside the Catholic Church until VC II. As a matter of fact, prior to 1955, the entire Catholic Church prayed on Good Fridays:

“Let us pray also for the faithless Jews: that Almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts 2 Corinthians 3:13-16; so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. (’Amen’ is not responded, nor is said ‘Let us pray’, or ‘Let us kneel’, or ‘Arise’, but immediately is said:) Almighty and eternal God, who dost not exclude from thy mercy even Jewish faithlessness: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen”

3. You are quoting JPII’s catechism (which is post VC II). JPII is the pope who prayed, “May St. John the Baptist protect Islam...”

4. Francis appears to be giving up on those “who don’t appear to be following the path”. He encourages Jews, Muslims, Protestants and atheists to pursue their false beliefs.


43 posted on 01/31/2015 1:51:30 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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