[qwertyz]

Congratulations on your hard work digging up these quotes. The problem is the underlying assumption that there is NOT an authoritative interpreter guided by the Holy Spirit to discern the truth of the matter. Is Cousin Billy Bob and Uncle Fred in 2015 really able to understand the mind of the Church 2000 years ago? Or is there a body (a shepherd, if you will) passing down the authentic Tradition about the Eucharist’s meaning?

Finally, there is the problem of consequences. If the Eucharist is just a symbol, its abuse shows disrespect, but little more. For Paul, however, the consequence was grave: “So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.”

This is not how one talks about a symbol.

Keep up the good work — but understand that for many, it’s the first step to converting to Catholicism. (”To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.”—Cardinal John Henry Newman)

[CynicalBear]

Why do you insist on assigning sin to Jesus? If that had been real blood He would have been sinning and encouraging others to sin.

[Springfield Reformer]

”To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.”—Cardinal John Henry Newman

Newman was wrong. But that's always possible when one is a mere fallible human.

As far as consequences are concerned, you have to start with the truth before you can know the consequences.  Paul's dire warning to the Corinthians had nothing to do with having an individual epiphany about the true but hidden substance of the bread and wine, but rather with some members of the body of believers who were being treated so disrespectfully, though they were themselves members of the body of Christ, which point he makes repeatedly throughout that whole stretch of the book.  That whole context thing.  So it isn't, "recognize Aquinas' alchemy," it's "recognize the body of Christ in that brother you're treating badly, because if you're doing bad things to him, you're doing bad things to Jesus Himself." Yep, now that would have dire consequences.

Peace,

SR

[CynicalBear]

So you like Newman?

The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.[Cardinal Newman - Development of Christian Doctrine, pg 373]

[metmom]

”To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.”—Cardinal John Henry Newman

”To be deep in Scripture is to cease to be Catholic.”

[Old Yeller]

If transubstantiation really occurred, why would the Catholic Church sacrifice Jesus over and over thousands of times a day, every day?

[RnMomof7]

For Paul, however, the consequence was grave: “So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.”

Notice Paul called it BREAD and the CUP not "body and blood".. the Jews understood MEMORIALS..the passover ritual was one carefully kept and treated with great respect ...

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Congratulations on your hard work digging up these quotes. The problem is the underlying assumption that there is NOT an authoritative interpreter guided by the Holy Spirit to discern the truth of the matter. Is Cousin Billy Bob and Uncle Fred in 2015 really able to understand the mind of the Church 2000 years ago?

You think these losers are more qualified than Cousin Billy Bob? At least Billy Bob would shoot the terrorist and not fornicate with his koran:

You guys teach in total contradiction of both the holy scripture and the church fathers. Heck, you teach in contradiction to what Papists taught and believed even just a century ago. Your claims of authority are shallow.