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To: Al Hitan; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; CynicalBear; daniel1212; ...
Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? James 2:20

There are real problems when a verse is taken out of its context, Al

We need always to consider to whom it was written and the circumstances it was addressing

The book of James was written to a converted church , not heathens seeking salvation . It tells them how their conversion is seen by the unsaved world . It is not about becoming saved or being saved. It is about the fruit of your salvation.
It is not saying we need works to be saved..but that our works ARE EVIDENCE of our salvation . If you have no works flowing from your salvation.. then you have a dead (false salvation)

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
This is an amplification of the teaching of Jesus that we know a tree by the fruit it bears. It is how we know the saved from the unsaved. It does not declare that the man has faith ...but that he SAYS he has faith.

This addresses a hollow profession of faith , not a saving one .Can a hollow profession save him? NO, any more than works can save.This scripture says to the church that this faith is non existent , it is dead.

The bible is clear that it is God that gives the faith and it is God that ordains the works of the saved

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Hbr 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

104 posted on 01/17/2015 10:06:17 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Ga 4:16)
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To: RnMomof7; Mark17; metmom
RCs mistate or mistake sola fide as meaning that faith that is alone is salvific, that never manifests obedience, such as mere intellectual assent, rather it meaning it is precisely the faith that is behind holiness and works which actually appropriates justification for the unGodly by being counted for righteousness, not because one is good enough to be with God, but with works of faith (not mere good deeds) being necessary if such faith is salvific.

Believing itself is obedience, but which God enables and motivates to His glory, and which God sees and grants cleansing and regeneration, as evidenced by the regeneration of the Gentiles by faith, before baptism in Acts10. But confession in various forms and holiness before others (and in principal if alone) are works which justify one as being a believer.

To get around this and require magical RC baptism, in which the act itself instrumentally effects regeneration, a RC may argue that receiving the Holy Spirit is not the same as being cleansed from sin, for which baptism is necessary.

Yet the Holy Spirit is never received prior to cleansing and Peter distinctly told Cornelius and co. that whosoever believes on the Lord Jesus shall receive remission of sins, (Acts 10:43) and states that the Gentiles were to believe the gospel and that God purified their hearts by faith. (Acts 11:7-9) Which was not an inert faith one which was confessed in baptism. Of course, i have seen other RC private interpretation that contended Cornelius and co. were not born again until being baptized!

A rather comprehensive examination of this issue of Paul vs, James is seen here by R. Bruce Compton in the Detroit Baptist Seminary Journal.

112 posted on 01/17/2015 1:07:06 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: RnMomof7

>>We need always to consider to whom it was written and the circumstances it was addressing<<

Indeed. If one wants to view an epistle of a church where there was confusion on the Gospel message then look to the “foolish Galatians.”


119 posted on 01/17/2015 7:35:36 PM PST by redleghunter (...whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. (1 Corinthians 10:31))
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