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To: NYer; Dutchboy88
Fwiw, I can kinda agree with the first, but disagree with those last two tenants, so I guess the semi-Pelagians would reject me and give me an unpleasant label.

I do believe in free will. If we don't have free will to choose, then what's the point of any Scripture. It there isn't free will, then God has already decided who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. Nothing anyone can do one way or the other. It's all a sham. Might as well party.

Of course, that's not how I feel or what I believe. We, sinners all, decide our fate and do so by choosing to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, repent of our sins and live by His Commandments.

Some choose this. Some do not. But, it's a matter of choice and action as near as I can tell.

Not just knowing the words to quote at will, but also taking those words to heart and then living by those memorized words and phrases. "By their fruits you'll know..."

I am sorry that those of us who see Divine Determinism as the perspective described in the Scriptures have made discussions about the matter unpleasant for you.

Thank you, but there's no need for being sorry and the discussions weren't unpleasant.

Rather, I was the one who was being unpleasant in the discussions and I regret my poor behavior.

Had I understood better what I still don't really understand, I wouldn't have bothered being a bother.

Instead, I'm baffled...which is situation normal for me.

43 posted on 01/14/2015 3:56:06 PM PST by GBA (Just a hick in paradise)
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To: GBA
"I do believe in free will. If we don't have free will to choose, then what's the point of any Scripture. It there isn't free will, then God has already decided who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. Nothing anyone can do one way or the other. It's all a sham. Might as well party."

Not to be argumentative, but this is exactly what Paul is discussing in his letter to the Romans, chap. 9. Notice:

10ff - And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; for though the twins were not yet born, and had not done anything good or bad, in order that God's purpose according to HIS CHOICE might stand, not because of works, but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, "The older will serve the younger." just as it was written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and compassion on whom I have compassion" So then it does not depend on the man who chooses or the man who acts but on God who has mercy...

You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?'"

Paul was routinely faced with folks who made the same argument you raised here...it is not fair if we are automatons. And, his answer?

"On the contrary, who are you O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, 'Why did you make me like this?' will it?"

It is a startling thing to recognize that the Bible teaches God is managing our decisions. We are not puppets, because puppets are dead, and we are alive. God is just a genius beyond words and can manipulate those whom He has chosen into His family. This may be difficult to swallow, but it was the message of the apostles and the message of some of the reformers. Today's evangelicals have often lined up behind Rome in this matter. Grace to you, my FRiend.

47 posted on 01/15/2015 8:52:46 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: NYer; Dutchboy88
Please forgive my poor spelling and comprehension in my post:
"tenant" should have been "tenent"
I had it right at first, but the spell checker said "tenent" was misspelled and, me being a consistent D+ to C- grade level speller, I took its word for it.

My apologies.

60 posted on 01/16/2015 8:34:26 AM PST by GBA (Just a hick in paradise)
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