Premillennialism and the Tribulation — Part VIII: Midtribulationism

Midtribulationism is a comparatively new interpretation of Scripture relating to the translation of the church. Its principal expositor is Norman B. Harrison. Accepting some of the basic premises of pretribulationism, such as the future character of the seventieth week of Daniel (Dan 9:27), midtribulationism places the translation of the church at the middle of this week instead of at its beginning as do the pretribulationists. In contrast to the posttribulationists, it holds that the translation takes place before the time of wrath and great tribulation instead of after it.

Midtribulationism is, therefore, a mediate view between posttribulationism and pretribulationism. As such it has commended itself to some who for one reason or another are dissatisfied with both pretribulationism and posttribulationism. it has also provided a place for certain prophecies to be fulfilled before the translation of the church instead of afterward, and at the same time is able to claim the promises of comfort and blessing which seem to be denied by the posttribulationists who take the church through the entire period.

Midtribulationists usually do not use the term of themselves, and prefer to classify themselves as pretribulationists—pretribulational in the sense that Christ is coming before the “great tribulation” which characterizes the last half of Daniel’s seventieth week. Harrison refers to his view as teaching “His pre-Tribulation coming” (Norman B. Harrison, The End, p. 118). The term midtribulation is justified by the common designation of the entire seventieth week of Daniel as a period of tribulation even though pretribulationists can agree that only its latter half is properly “the great tribulation.”

The midtribulational interpretation bristles with important theological, exegetical, and practical problems, and it differs radically from normal pretribulationism. Among the crucial issues are such questions as the following: (1) Does the seventh trumpet of Revelation mark the beginning of the great tribulation? (2) Is the rapture of the church in Revelation 11? (3) Is the seventh trumpet the “last trumpet” for the church? (4) Do the programs for Israel and the church overlap? (5) Is the hope of the imminent return of Christ unscriptural? In general, the midtribulational view requires a different interpretation of most of the important Scriptures relating to the coming of Christ for the church.

One of the crucial issues in the midtribulational theory is the question of whether the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11 begins the great tribulation. In fact, it is not too much to say that the whole teaching of midtribulationists depends upon this identification. The midtribulational view cites many other Scriptures, however. Harrison appeals to the following passages: Exodus 25—40 : Leviticus 23; Psalm 2; Daniel 2, 7 , 9 ; Matthew 13; 24—25 ; 1 Thessalonians 4:13—5:10 ; 2 Thessalonians 2 (ibid., p. 35). It is clear from reading his discussion, however, that these are supporting passages, or problems which have to be solved in the midtribulational view, rather than the crux of the issue.

The midtribulational view requires the interpretation that the first half of the Book of Revelation is not the great tribulation. In general, the theme song of its adherents is that the church will go through the “beginning of sorrows” (Matt 24:8, A.V.), or “beginning of travail” (A.S.V.), but not through the “great tribulation” (Matt 24:21) as Harrison indicates in his “Harmonized Outline” of Matthew 24—25 and Revelation 1—20 (ibid., p. 54). It is their position that the events of the seven seals as well as the judgments of the first six trumpets are related to the first three and one-half years of Daniel’s seventieth week and therefore are not a description of the “great tribulation.”

Harrison states: “‘Wrath’ is a word reserved for the Great Tribulation—see ‘wrath of God’ in 14:10, 19 ; 15:7 ; 16:1 , etc.” (ibid., p. 91). He implies that there is no wrath of God mentioned during the period of the seven seals and the first six trumpets. In his comment on Revelation 11:18, he states: “The Day of Wrath has only now come (11:18 ). This means that nothing that precedes in the Seals and Trumpets can rightfully be regarded as wrath” (ibid., p. 119). He further defines the tribulation as equivalent to divine wrath: “Let us get clearly in mind the nature of the Tribulation, that it is divine ‘wrath’ (11:18 ; 14:8, 10, 19 ; 15:1, 7 ; 16:1, 19 ) and divine ‘judgment’ (14:7 ; 15:4 ; 16:7 ; 17:1 ; 18:10 ; 19:2 )” (ibid., p. 120). In both instances where Harrison gives extended lists of references to “wrath” in Revelation (ibid., pp. 91,120) he, with evident purpose, omits Revelation 6:16-17 and Revelation 7:14. The former passage refers to wrath in connection with the sixth seal, and the latter is the only reference to the “great tribulation” by that title in the entire book. Both of these passages fall in the section of Revelation which deals with the period preceding the trumpets.

The explanation given of the reference to “wrath” in Revelation 6:16-17 is certainly inadequate for such a crucial issue. Harrison interprets the sixth seal “as reaching to the day of Wrath” (ibid., p. 91), as if it were a future instead of aorist as it is in the text. No Greek tense would be more inappropriate to express this idea of Harrison’ s than the aorist, which usually is punctiliar as to kind of action, and present or past as to time. If “the great day of their Wrath is come” (Rev 6:17), it certainly cannot be postponed as to its beginning until after the seventh seal is opened and seven trumpets of various judgments are poured out upon the earth.

Not only does Harrison exclude wrath, but the first three and one-half years are declared a relatively pleasant time. Harrison writes: “The first half of the week, or period of seven years, was a ‘sweet’ anticipation to John, as it is to them; under treaty protection, they [Israel] will be ‘sitting pretty,’ as we say. But the second half—’bitter’ indeed…” (ibid., p. 111). Pretribulationists could accept the teaching that the first three and one-half years of Daniel’s seventieth week is a time of protection for Israel, but they do not find this period described in Revelation 6—11 .

Even a casual reading of the seals and first six trumpets will make clear that the great tribulation begins with the early seals, not with the seventh trumpet. Certainly famine (Rev 6:5-6), death for one-fourth of the world’s population (Rev 6:8), earthquakes, stars falling from heaven, the moon becoming as blood, and every mountain and island being moved out of their places (Rev 6:12-14) portray indeed “the great day of their wrath”—the “wrath of the Lamb” (Rev 6:16-17). This is no period of “‘sweet’ anticipation to John” (loc. cit.), but the unprecedented time of trouble. Add to this the first six trumpets with their bloodshed, destruction on the earth and the sea, and poisoning of the rivers with the result that “many men died” (Rev 8:11), climaxed by the great woes of Revelation 9—10 , and one has a picture of great tribulation such as the world has never experienced. According to Scripture, at that time “their torment” will be “as the torment of a scorpion, when it striketh a man” (Rev 9:5).Some will seek death in vain in order to escape (Rev 9:10). In the sixth seal, one-third of the remaining earth’s population will be killed. If language means anything, this is the predicted time of unprecedented trouble.

Midtribulationists are obliged not only to explain away the explicit reference to wrath in connection with the sixth seal (Rev 6:16-17), but they must also slide over the only specific reference to the “great tribulation” in the entire Book of Revelation (7:14 ). This is made into a prophetic vision of the time to follow the tribulation. In the light of these references to wrath and great tribulation in a context as frightfully graphic as the events of the seals and first six trumpets, it should be obvious that the very foundation of the midtribulational theory is built upon sand. Few theories are more openly contradicted by the very Scriptures from which support is expected.

The efforts to evade these graphic Scriptures force midtribulationists to spiritualize and thereby nullify the force of these judgments. Harrison attempts to find fulfillment of the trumpet judgments in the events of World War II. He states in reference to the second trumpet, “The ‘great mountain burning with fire’ seems a clear reference to Germany, suddenly ‘cast into the sea’ of nations…” (ibid., p. 218). In the same paragraph he then suddenly makes “the sea” a literal sea in which literal ships are sunk: “The further reference to ‘sea’ and ‘ships’ (8:9 ) must betaken literally…” (loc. cit). It should be obvious that this interpretation also calls for a chronology in which the seventh trumpet will sound within a few years thereafter, involving a date-setting for the rapture which subsequent history has proven an error.

The evident fallacy of the whole midtribulational interpretation of Revelation 1—11 is that this view forces a spiritualization of the entire passage to find contemporary rather than future fulfillment. In doing so, a strained exegesis of the passages is achieved which is subjective and arbitrary. Even a simple reading of this section will give an impression of vivid divine judgment upon a sinful world which transcends anything which history has recorded. If the passage is intended to be taken with any serious literalness, its fulfillment is yet future.

The great tribulation actually begins in Revelation 6, not in Revelation 11. The seventh trumpet marks a point near its end, not its beginning. Posttribulationists make the seventh trumpet the end of the tribulation (cf. Reese, The Approaching Advent of Christ, p. 73). This is accomplished by ignoring the fact that the seven vials of judgment follow the seventh trump. It is curious, however, that both of these opponents of pretribulationism adopt such opposite views of the seventh trump, and, in effect, cancel out each other.

At no point does the midtribulation view manifest its dogmatism more than in the interpretation of Revelation 11. One midtribulationist contends for the view that the great tribulation is the first part of Daniel’s seventieth week, that the rapture occurs in the middle of the week after this tribulation, and that the last half of the week is the beginning of the Day of the Lord. The rapture according to this view takes place at the sixth seal of Revelation 6:12-17 (cf. H. W. H., The Church and the Great Tribulation, 46 pp). This point of view is actually a variation of posttribulationism and is peculiar to the author. The more normal position for midtribulationism is to place the rapture at Revelation 11.

J.Oliver Buswell has expressed the midtribulational position in the following statement: “I do not believe that the Church will go through any part of that period which the Scripture specifically designates as the wrath of God, but I do believe that the abomination of desolation will be a specific signal for a hasty flight followed by a very brief but a very terrible persecution, and that followed very quickly by the rapture of the Church preceding the outpouring of the vials of the wrath of God” (extract from letter published in Our Hope, LVI, June, 1950, 720).

We are indebted to Norman B. Harrison for the most explicit exposition of this teaching. His interpretation of Revelation 11 claims that “all the elements involved in the Coming are here” (op. cit., p. 117). He submits the following tabulation:

This tabulation (ibid., p. 117) is supplemented by the discussion which brings out the midtribulational interpretation. The two witnesses are symbolic of Moses and Elijah, “represent the Law and the Prophets” and more specifically according to their description in Revelation 11 as “two olive trees and two candlesticks” (Rev 11:4) they represent the witness of the saints of the Old and New Covenant (ibid., pp. 114-15). Harrison is not too clear as to his precise definition, and seems to waver between the idea that the two witnesses represent all the saints, especially Jew and Gentile, and the idea that they represent Moses and Elijah, viz., “The Two Classes ‘Dead’—’Alive’“ (ibid., p. 117). By this, apparently, he means that the two witnesses are the living church and the resurrected saints at the time of the rapture. He states, “Now, if the two witnesses are symbolic of a ‘larger company of witnesses,’ then their resurrection and ascension must be symbolic of the resurrection and rapture of that larger company” (ibid., pp. 116-17).

This interpretation is supplemented by further identification of “the cloud” as symbolic of the rapture: “‘The Cloud’ (11:12 ) is a definite reference to the Lord’s presence-parousia” (ibid., p. 117). Because the future tense is omitted in the description of Christ in Revelation 11:17, Harrison concludes, “It seeks to tell us: He has come” (ibid., p. 118). The reference to the “reign” of Christ is declared by Harrison to be future, not present, as the third woe, viz., the vials, must be first poured out (loc. cit). The statement, “thy wrath came” (Rev 11:18, A.S.V.) is interpreted, on the basis of the Authorized translation, “thy wrath is come,” as “has only now come (11:18 ). This means that nothing that precedes in the Seals and Trumpets can rightfully be regarded as wrath” (loc. cit). Harrison overlooks that the verb “came” is in the aorist which emphasizes the fact but not the time of the action. It could just as well refer to the whole course of the wrath of God in the seals and preceding trumpets.

His interpretation of the opening of the temple (Rev 11:19) is that it “is a further reference to the Rapture. ‘Know ye not that ye are the temple of God?’“ (ibid., p. 119). Just how the church can be “opened in heaven” he does not explain. The concluding identification is that the “seventh Trumpet sounds for the pouring of the Bowls of wrath. While it brings glory to the Church, it brings Woe (the third) to the world” (loc. cit). The church goes through two woes which are not to be identified with the great tribulation, but not through the third woe which is so identified.

The fallacy of this entire exegesis of the passage is that there is no positive evidence that any of the identifications are correct. Similarities do not prove identity. The character of the two witnesses seems to indicate that they are actual individuals, not representatives of all the saints living and dead. The saints as a whole do not perform the miracles nor the witness designated of them (Rev 11:5-6). Nor are all the saints, especially the resurrected saints, killed by the beast. If all the saints are killed, then none would be living to be raptured. If the witnesses are only symbols, how can symbols be literally killed and lie in literal streets? Do the saints as a whole have men look on their “dead bodies” for “three days and a half,” refusing them burial in a tomb (Rev 11:9)? The other identifications are just as strained and unsustained by the text. sounded by angels. The trumpet at the rapture is the “trump of God.” The trumpets of Revelation are all connected with divine judgment upon sin and unbelief. The trump of 1 Thessalonians 4 and of 1 Corinthians 15 is a call to the elect, an act of grace, a command to the dead to rise.

The most damaging fact in the whole argument, however, is that the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11 is, after all, not the last trumpet of Scripture. According to Matthew 24:31, the elect will be gathered at the coming of Christ to establish His earthly kingdom “with a great sound of a trumpet.” While posttribulationists hold that this is identical with the seventh trumpet, midtribulationists cannot do so. In fact, it is not too much to say that this one reference alone spells the doom of midtribulationism.

The use of “last” in reference to the trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15 is easily explained without resorting to the extremities of midtribulationism. H. A. Ironside interprets it as a familiar military expression: “When a Roman camp was about to be broken up, whether in the middle of the night or in the day, a trumpet was sounded. The first blast meant, ‘Strike tents and prepare to depart.’ The second meant, ‘Fall into line,’ and when what was called ‘the last trump’ sounded it meant, ‘March away.’“ (Addresses on the First Epistle to the Corinthians, p. 529). The last trump of God for the church, following the gospel call and call to preparation, will be the call to go to be with the Lord. Whether or not this explanation be accepted, it illustrates that there is no necessity of relating a trump for the church with trumpets of judgment upon the unsaved. Each trumpet must be related to its own order. Any child in school knows that the last bell for one hour may be followed by a first bell for the next hour. “Last” must be understood then to relate to the time order indicated by the context.

Midtribulationists are therefore unjustified in making the identification of the seventh trumpet with the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians. The seventh trumpet is not the last trump of Scripture anyway, and the events which they claim are related to it actually occur before the seventh trumpet is sounded according to the chronology of Revelation 11. On no point does the identification commend itself.

Another objection to the midtribulational interpretation is that it confuses Israel and the church and requires an overlap of their two programs. Harrison’s argument that the existence of the temple to A.D. 70 proves that Israel’s program and that of the church overlaps is entirely untenable (cf. Harrison, op. cit., pp. 50-53). According to Scripture the dispensation of the law ended at the cross (2 Cor 3:11; Gal 3:25; Col 2:14). Most students of the seventy weeks of Daniel who believe the seventieth week is future also believe that the sixty-ninth week was fulfilled prior to the crucifixion of Christ. Israel’s program is therefore at a standstill and the continued existence of the temple had no relevance. Israel as a people and nation have continued throughout the present age, but their predicted program has made no specffic progress since Pentecost. The necessity for such an overlapping program is not inherent in Scriptural revelation, but only a necessary adjunct of midtribulational interpretation.

One of the important reasons why pretribulationists believe the refutation of midtribulationism is necessary is that it directly attacks the imminency of the Lord’s return for the church much in the same fashion as is true in posttribulationism. Midtribulationism has this added feature, however, which is most objectionable: it sets up a definite chronology requiring date-setting. The events of the first three and one-half years of Daniel’s prophecy are specific. They begin with a covenant between a Gentile ruler and Israel in which Israel is promised protection and Palestine becomes their national home. Such a covenant could not be a secret by its very nature as it would be heralded throughout Jewry and be of great interest to the entire world. Such a covenant would, on the one hand, make the coming of Christ impossible for three and one-half years, according to the midtribulationist, and, on the other hand, make an imminent coming impossible at any time prior to the covenant. If the restrainer of 2 Thessalonians is the Holy Spirit, it also sets up an impossible chronology—the Holy Spirit taken out of the world before the church is.

The date-setting character of midtribulationism is manifest in Harrison’s exposition. He identifies World War I specifically “as that which our Lord Jesus envisioned, distinguishing it from other wars through the years…” (ibid., p. 20). His calculations are detailed: “The evidence that the War Trumpets of Revelation 8 found their realization, initially at least, in World War II is striking and conclusive. Here are a few marks of identification (will the reader please familiarize himself with chapter 8 ): 1—Its Origin (vs. 1 )—the Trumpets proceed from the Seals. World War II definitely grew out of World War I—practically but a second stage. 2—Its Timing (vs. 1 )—’about the space of half an hour.’ Some time notes are merely general; this is specific. The key to divine reckoning is Peter’s ‘one day is with the Lord as a thousand years.’ A half-hour is 1/48th of a day; divided into 1, 000 years it yields 20 years, 10 months. This is the ‘space’ of ‘silence’ between the wars. Reckoned from the armistice of Nov. 11, 1918, it brings us to Sept. 11, 1939. But it says ‘about’; World War II began Sept. 1, 1939; Hitler ‘jumped the gun’ by 10 days” (Harrison, His Coming, pp. 42-43). This far-fetched interpretation is its own refutation.

Harrison further identifies the second trumpet with Germany (The End, p. 218). It should be obvious, under his chronology, if this occurs during the first three and one-half years of Daniel’s last week, that the rapture is now long overdue. This refutation from history does not seem to deter midtribulationists, like another date-setters, from making alterations in their system and making another guess at identifying current events with the seals and trumpets of Revelation.

To most students of prophecy, the midtribulation view falls for want of proof in its three strategic interpretations: its teaching that the great tribulation does not begin until the seventh trumpet, the identification of the seventh trumpet with the middle of the seventieth week of Daniel, and its further blunder of demanding identification of the seventh trumpet with the last trump of 1 Corinthians 15:52. Its arguments against imminency on other grounds (cf. Harrison, The End, pp. 231-33) are a repetition of familiar posttribulational arguments often refuted. While the question of the time of the return of the Lord for His church is not in itself a structural principle of theology as a whole, it certainly has a vital bearing on the interpretation of many Scriptures and is integral to the teaching of the imminency of the rapture. The great majority of expositors will continue to divide between the posttribulational and pretribulational positions, with the midtribulational and partial rapture viewpoints held only by a small minority.

The so-called mid-tribulational rapture view is an attempt to address specific problems of the so-called pre-tribulational and post-tribulational views.

I think it is important in debating this subject in the context of Revelation to note that the translation of living believers is nowhere explicitly described in the book. Further, the resurrection of saints identified as an event in time only includes the bodily resurrection of those beheaded for their testimony (apparently a special resurrection). So what about all of the Old Testament saints? How about those who believed before the Law of Moses came (such as Abraham and other patriarchs)? How about New Testament believers who we agree as being the body of Christ, the Church?

ALL VIEWS about the timing of the rapture of the church in the context of Revelation are INFERRED.

That being said, I continue to hold the view that there remains a seven-year period during which God will bring about the salvation of all Israelites alive on the planet, and the fulfillment of all of the prophecies concerning Israel (though some are specific to the millennial kingdom that follows this seven-year period).

At the beginning of this seven-year period, the Anti-Christ will arise and deceive Israel, entering into a seven-year treaty with them. They, excluding those who have already trusted in Jesus, will believe the Anti-Christ is their awaited Messiah. They will be greatly disappointed.

In the middle of this seven-year period, the Anti-Christ will break his treaty, enter the rebuilt temple, and proclaim himself as God for all the world to worship. AT THAT TIME, there will be a “time of trouble” like none other. There are a specific set of signs, unique in the history of the world which identify this time period:

Revelation 6 describes identical events Christ spoke of to His disciples in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

1) Deception, False Christs, False Peace - Matthew 24:5; Mark 13:5,6; Luke 21:8; Revelation 6:2 (1st Seal)

2) War and rumors of war - Matthew 24:6,7; Mark 13:7,8; Luke 21:9,10; Revelation 6:3,4 (2nd Seal)

3) Famine - Matthew 24:7; Mark 13:8; Luke 21:11; Revelation 6:5,6 (3rd Seal)

4) Disease, troubles and natural disasters - Matthew 24:7; Mark 13:8; Luke 21:11; Revelation 6:7,8 (4th Seal)

NOTE: Numbers 1-4 are called the “beginning of sorrows”.

5) “Tribulation”, persecution and martyrdom of the saints - Matthew 24:9; Mark 13:9; Luke 21:12; Revelation 6:9-11 (5th Seal)

6) Signs in the heavens, specifically the darkening of the sun and moon (immediately AFTER the Great Tribulation) - Matthew 24:29; Mark 13:24,25; Luke 21:25,26; Revelation 6:12-14 (6th Seal)

7) Return of the Lord / Day of the Lord - Matthew 24:30,31; Mark 13:26,27; Luke 21:27,28; Revelation 6:17 (subsequent to the 6th seal, prior to 7th seal)

I find common ground with mid-tribulation, pre-tribulation, and post-tribulation rapture views.

I agree with the mid-tribulation rapture that the end of Revelation 6 is where the translation of living saints occurs, and is described in Revelation 7 as those who come out of THE GREAT TRIBULATION. But I do not believe this occurs in the middle of Daniel’s seventieth week, but some time later at an unspecified point.

I agree with the post-tribulation rapture view in that I believe the rapture that occurs at the end of Revelation 6 is at the end of the Great Tribulation but prior to the Day of the Lord, which commences at this time.

I agree with the pre-tribulation rapture view in that I believe there is a distinction between Christ’s return for the Church, and His return to set up His kingdom, though these two events are both part of the “second coming” of Christ. I also agree that “God did not appoint us to wrath” and therefore the Church will NOT go through the wrath of God poured out on the earth. However, I believe, like the mid-tribulationalists, that this day of wrath begins after the sixth seal has run its course.

This view is commonly called the “pre-wrath” rapture. I believe it resolves the various problems each of the other views have in being reconciled with scripture.

The author addresses a “time-setting” problem for pre-trib and mid-trib views. The author argues that both of these views allow setting a date as to when the return of the Lord will occur. I agree. But so does the pre-trib view. How so?

Consider that some verses regarding the return of the Lord for the Church describe this event as happening suddenly and unexpectedly, “like a thief.” However, Christ uses this exact description for His return AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION in the Olivet Discourse.

Matthew 24:29-31, 36, 42-44
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other...
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only...
Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

According to the pre-trib view, this coming of Christ is not the rapture of the Church because it comes after the great tribulation. Yet Christ says this event will happen suddenly, unexpectedly, and like a thief - ALL of the same reasons given by advocates of the pre-trib view AGAINST date setting.

However, if the Great Tribulation begins at the middle of Daniel’s seventieth week, and does not last for the entire remainder, but is “cut short” for the sake of the elect, then His return at the end of the great tribulation will be sudden and unexpected by those not continually watching and waiting for His return.

So, see, the mid-tribulation, pre-tribulation, and post-tribulation rapture views ALL have a problem with date setting. The pre-wrath view does not.

“On the occasion of her brother Lazarus’ death, Martha, like all Jews of Jesus day, believed the resurrection would take place on the last day.”

Will the “last day” occur before or after the thousand-year reign of Christ?

Because I doubt that you can find much support for arguing after. Yet, if the “last day” is BEFORE the thousand years, then in what sense is the day “last”?

There is only one second coming of Christ. But it involves multiple events over a period of time, just like His first coming. Christ’s conception, birth, growth to manhood, ministry, death, burial, and resurrection are all part of His first coming. Likewise, one aspect of Christ’s second coming is the rapture of the Church. Another is His return to earth to establish His kingdom.

His second coming involves a period of time and includes the millennial reign of a thousand years. The translation of living saints takes place in a moment. At the rapture, angels gather the elect. And we meet the Lord in the air. This is distinct from when He plants His feet on Mt. Zion and it splits in two. It is distinct from when the angels gather the wicked and cast them out.

Matthew 13:30 & 41
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

Matthew 24:31
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Corinthians 15:52
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I do not find a distinction between the time period called the “last day”, the “day of the Lord”, and the “end”. I would be interested in any evidence to the contrary.

If the last day is another way of describing the day of the Lord, then the verses you presented only support a pre-wrath view, rather than arguing against it.

“I don’t believe the 2nd coming is multiple events, that’s where we differ.”

We can agree that “at His coming” designates His arrival, but I think we differ more in that you describe my view as having a second and third coming. You say that His second coming is not multiple events, but you include multiple events in your description:

1. Christ descends from heaven to the earth
2. resurrects and raptures the saints on the way down
3. defeat his enemies at Armageddon

Do you believe all of this happens in one calendar day that is the “last day”?

“His enemies aren’t put under his feet until chapter 19 of Revelation, which assuredly does NOT take place before the tribulation, nor the middle of it.”

But you argue that the battle of Armageddon happens AFTER He leaves Heaven. So I am not sure what distinction is being made by “waiting till His enemies are made His footstool”. At the point you mention, there is still the need to defeat anti-Christ and the Devil has not yet been cast into the lake of fire.

Paul describes the second coming this way:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
And to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe...

So, you are correct that He will put down His enemies when He comes the second time (and there is no third time). This cannot describe the beginning of Daniel’s seventieth week. Nor can it be the middle, at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. However, it can be at the end of the Great Tribulation and beginning of the Day of wrath during which His holy angels execute judgments of flaming fire. Notice when these begin in Revelation.

Revelation 8:3-11
Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake. So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up. Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed. Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter.

These are the judgments that immediately follow the recognition by the inhabitants of earth that the wrath of the Lamb has arrived. They embody Paul’s description of Christ returning with holy angels who inflict judgments of flaming fire.

Peter describes the Day of the Lord similarly:

2 Peter 3:10-12
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

Isaiah describes the day of the Lord this way:

Isaiah 2:10-12
Enter into the rock, and hide in the dust,
From the terror of the Lord
And the glory of His majesty.
The lofty looks of man shall be humbled,
The haughtiness of men shall be bowed down,
And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
For the day of the Lord of hosts
Shall come upon everything proud and lofty,
Upon everything lifted up—
And it shall be brought low—

Is this not His enemies being made His footstool?

Paul clarifies the order again here:

1 Corinthians 15:22-26
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

As I said before, I see no distinction made between the “day of the Lord”, the “last day” and the “end”. I believe these are all designations for the same thing, which is the time period immediately following the return of Christ. It is during this end time period that all rule and authority of men is brought into subjection to Christ.

When Christ returns He will be visible to the world, and they will mourn:

Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

This mourning is what happens after the sixth seal:

Revelation 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

This also matches other passages regarding the day of the Lord, as I mentioned earlier in the Isaiah 2 passage. He describes this time in more detail in chapter 13, which I shall leave out for brevity. Joel says the same in chapters 1 and 3. I would highly recommend a study on the “day of the Lord”. This time follows the Great Tribulation and precedes the millennial kingdom. And Paul clearly designates its arrival as being simultaneous to the return of Christ in both epistles to the Thessalonians.

When believers are gathered out of the Great Tribulation and into the throne room of Heaven, it does not describe what people of earth see. We know they will see Christ when He returns. We know the Heavenly City which contains the throne of God and of the Lamb will descend from Heaven onto the earth:

Revelation 21:1-3, 22-23
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.”
But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.

We also know that the anti-Christ will be blaspheming those who dwell in Heaven:

Revelation 13:6
Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

And there is another reference to those who dwell in Heaven here:

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

Right now, there is apparently one and only one Man in Heaven, Christ Jesus. That is, He is the only Man there bodily. There are souls of men before the throne, but no bodies. Then this description changes in Revelation 7. Suddenly there are multitudes of people there. And from there we see men described as dwelling there.

Remember Christ’s words about His return:

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

What is this dwelling place?

Hebrews 13:14
For here we have no continuing city, but we seek the one to come.

Clearly it is the city of God, the New Jerusalem.

So, those that come out of the Great Tribulation, enter the throne room of God which is in the New Jerusalem, which will visibly and physically descend to earth after the defeat of Christ’s enemies.

Remember, the author of Hebrews says this Heavenly city is a future dwelling place, not a present one. Yet, we have seen where there are people “dwelling” in Heaven during the time of God’s wrath.

My reason for pointing this out is to show how the rapture of believers to be with Christ and be in the place He has prepared is part of a singular second coming. This Heavenly city is on its way to earth. It may even be visible to those who dwell in the earth during the time of God’s wrath. Clearly anti-Christ acknowledges those dwelling in Heaven. (How does he know this apart from a prior visible rapture of believers?) And then, the wrath of God is poured out on the earth until the ultimate defeat of all of His enemies. Then the earth is rebuilt and ruled from the Heavenly city. Christ’s second coming includes all of these things and His reign on earth for a thousand years.

This is the singular second coming, and it arrives simultaneously to the arrival of the Day of the Lord, as described in Revelation 6:16, among other places.

“I don’t think it will take the Lord very long to dispose of his enemies...do you?”

No. But the question is not “what can He do?”, but “what does He say He will do?” We could argue that it makes sense for God to create the universe in three days rather than six, but He chose six.

My point is that all of the various paradigms about the timing of Christ’s return sound good and have an internal consistency. But when we open the Bible, we often find that our paradigms do not fit.

That is why I suggest a study on the topic of the Day of the Lord. There are many scriptures that describe what will happen during this period, what precedes it, and how the second coming is connected to it.

The traditional post-trib view does not allow time for the Day of the Lord to occur if it is placed after Daniel’s seventieth week. I’m not sure how there can be any dispute that the return of Christ happens when that Day arrives.

The pre-wrath view is a post-trib view, but it is held that the Great Tribulation does not last for the entire second half of Daniel’s seventieth week, and that this seven year period is completed by the Day of the Lord.

To me the differences between the various views come down to the questions: “What is the Day of the Lord?” and “When is it in relation to Daniel’s seventieth week?”

However, I find that views other than pre-wrath, prefer to generalize or gloss over the meaning and significance of the Day of the Lord when it is really the crux of the matter.

Much more is said in scripture about this Day than even the abomination of desolation and Daniel’s seventieth week.

The main reason that I usually engage in this debate is because I want to hear all of the arguments against my views so I can study the alternatives and be sure I am subscribing to the most well-supported. There are many things I do not understand about prophecy, but I do believe there are practical implications in terms of our witness and conduct and a correct view of the gospel, dispensations, etc.

The consequence of error on this subject may be to expect Christ’s return too soon or too late, and thus be unprepared. We are commanded to both watch and be ready, as well as to wait patiently.

So I appreciate your feedback and Biblical insights even if we do not reach an agreement.

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