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To: Boogieman
The problem is, you don’t simply call them “priests”, while maintaining their proper role as described in the NT. You also give them the duties and privileges of a priestly class, even explicitly comparing them to the OT temple priests, which is contrary to the NT.

The actual problem is trying to discern the proper role of presbyter solely from the Bible. The New Testament is not an organizing manual for the church. The local churches were organized prior to its writing. The epistles in particular were written to address specific issues in the local churches. There were not intended to be a comprehensive instruction on the order of worship. Indeed, it is clear that the common worship of the community was very important to the early church. That there is not a detailed instruction in the Bible of how to carry this out shows the error of sola scripture.

Your reference to the "royal priesthood" in 1 Peter, as well as similar language in Revelation, shows that there is an ongoing priesthood (here I use the term for that of hiereus, not presbuteros) and thus an ongoing sacrifice. The relationship between the common priesthood of the baptized and that of the ordained ministers is not indicated in the Bible. Reference to the writings of the early Church Fathers shows what the early Christians actually believed rather than trying to postulate back the ideas of the 16th century Protestant reformers.

53 posted on 12/18/2014 11:10:16 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

“The New Testament is not an organizing manual for the church. The local churches were organized prior to its writing.”

Yes, which is exactly why we can look to the NT to see how they were organized, and note that it doesn’t look much like the system Rome promotes today.

“That there is not a detailed instruction in the Bible of how to carry this out shows the error of sola scripture.”

Actually, this statement just shows your misunderstanding of what the doctrine of “sola scriptura” means.

“The relationship between the common priesthood of the baptized and that of the ordained ministers is not indicated in the Bible. Reference to the writings of the early Church Fathers shows what the early Christians actually believed rather than trying to postulate back the ideas of the 16th century Protestant reformers.”

Oh yes! We can go back to the church fathers and see what they say about these matters. In fact, they tell us where the change sprang from, that accounts for why the Catholic offices appear different from the NT offices:

“The distinction between the order of clergy and the people has been established by the authority of the Church.” - Tertullian

Not from God, not from Christ, not from Scripture, but from the church. The church invented this distinction itself.


56 posted on 12/18/2014 11:37:17 AM PST by Boogieman
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