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To: ADSUM
You must be assuming that everything that Jesus and the Apostles did was written in the Bible. As Catholics, we also have our traditions and the Magisterium to help us understand moral law and follow the path of Christ.

No, we don't have a daily record of everything Jesus or Peter or Paul ever did. No one has ever claimed that.

What we do claim is that the writings the Apostles have given to us are sufficient for knowing who Christ is, knowing we are sinners, and knowing how we can find forgiveness of sins. That is sufficient.

The Bible tells us we have two intercessors in Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The Word tells us they are constantly making intercession for us.

Yet catholicism tells us the Mary does a better job than these two do....with no Biblical support to back it up.

Other religions have additional books and teachings they claim support the Bible as well....that they are additional teachings. They even cite selected verses to attempt to show their "belief" in the Bible. However, when examined they are in contradiction of the Word.

That is the issue with the catholic church on Mary.

This is from Pope Leo XIII as an example.

We constantly seek for help from Heaven - the sole means of effecting anything - that our labours and our care may obtain their wished for object. We deem that there could be no surer and more efficacious means to this end than by religion and piety to obtain the favour of the great Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, the guardian of our peace and the minister to us of heavenly grace, who is placed on the highest summit of power and glory in Heaven, in order that she may bestow the help of her patronage on men who through so many labours and dangers are striving to reach that eternal city. …..showing that the Catholic Church has always, and with justice, put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God. SUPREMI APOSTOLATUS OFFICIO ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIIION DEVOTION OF THE ROSARY

Notice that false teachings....the catholic church has put ALL of her hope and trust in Mary.

She is on the highest summit in Heaven....not God....not Jesus...but Mary.

I guess when John was given the Revelation and was able to see the Throne, he somehow missed Mary.

Not Jesus. ALL the hope of the Roman Catholic Church is in Mary. Not Jesus....the One Who died for our sins.

It sounds nice what the Pope wrote....but it is a lie out of the pit. This is how the enemy works.

A little, except in this case it's a lot, deviation or twisting of the Word. Pretty soon you're so far off base you don't realize it.

The RCC is so proud of this "tradition" that they could not back off now if they wanted to. Too much time, money and energy is invested in this. If they came out tomorrow and said "we're wrong on Mary", the whole thing would collapse.

794 posted on 12/15/2014 6:55:07 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
Your comment: “Yet catholicism tells us the Mary does a better job than these two do....with no Biblical support to back it up.” This is not true and the document does not state it.

The full paragraph that you quote from does not place Mary above God, but asks for her help with her son, Jesus. She is at the summit next to her son in Heaven, not as a God, but as a humble servant who has pleased God. This to encourage Catholics to pray the Rosary which includes the Our Father, the Hail Mary and the Glory Be. The Rosary is about the mysteries of Jesus life and our salvation. The Ave Maria acknowledges Mary's devotion to Christ and asks for her prayers now and when we die.

The Encyclical documents how Catholics have sought out Mary as the Mother of Jesus through prayer to help defend the faith. In no way has the Church defined Mary other than a obedient servant following the will of God. Catholics can adore and pray to God, as well as venerate Mary and the saints that have led a Christian life and are now with God in Heaven.

“We constantly seek for help from Heaven — the sole means of effecting anything — that our labors and our care may obtain their wished for object. We deem that there could be no surer and more efficacious means to this end than by religion and piety to obtain the favor of the great Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, the guardian of our peace and the minister to us of heavenly grace, who is placed on the highest summit of power and glory in Heaven, in order that she may bestow the help of her patronage on men who through so many labors and dangers are striving to reach that eternal city. Now that the anniversary, therefore, of manifold and exceedingly great favors obtained by a Christian people through the devotion of the Rosary is at hand, We desire that that same devotion should be offered by the whole Catholic world with the greatest earnestness to the Blessed Virgin, that by her intercession her Divine Son may be appeased and softened in the evils which afflict us.

2. It has always been the habit of Catholics in danger and in troublous times to fly for refuge to Mary, and to seek for peace in her maternal goodness; showing that the Catholic Church has always, and with justice, put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God. And truly the Immaculate Virgin, chosen to be the Mother of God and thereby associated with Him in the work of man's salvation, has a favor and power with her Son greater than any human or angelic creature has ever obtained, or ever can gain. And, as it is her greatest pleasure to grant her help and comfort to those who seek her, it cannot be doubted that she would deign, and even be anxious, to receive the aspirations of the universal Church.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13supre.htm

You are absolutely wrong on all of your statements and you have failed to document any lies or false statements by the Catholic Church, and I believe they are completely false. May God have Mercy on you and guide you to his Truth.

855 posted on 12/15/2014 8:26:15 PM PST by ADSUM
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