Did Adam and Eve Really Exist?

Crisis Magazine ^ | November 24, 2014 | DENNIS BONNETTE

[ravenwolf]

Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.”

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Yes exactly what I said, ;almost; Philip went out to preach the gospel, he did not hang around and preach to the other Members of the Church.

He did not sing to the quire like is taking place here on freeper.

[ravenwolf]

The Pentateuch, as the first five books of the Old Testament are called, are referred to as the the books of Moses in the New Testament

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Didn`t` know where but knew I had seen it or heard it.

[boatbums]

there was noone[sic] else there to be affected by the length of the day....only God was there, and we all know that to God a day is like.................whatever period of time you care to insert.

It doesn't matter whether or not no one was actually existing yet, the point is that it was GOD who specifically used the terms evening and morning for a "day". It isn't about what a day is to God - in eternity, it doesn't exist because there won't BE a sun to rise and set. But seeing as this is the accounting of what went on when God created the heavens and the earth and every creature in it, He used a LITERAL day - earth day, 24 hours, evening and morning or morning and evening, day and night. I can't believe you are seriously arguing against Genesis' creation account. It was GOD'S telling of what happened to Moses! Don't you think He would have made it clear if He meant thousands of years???

[boatbums]

Its interesting that your “rebuttals” do not disagree with the essence of Genesis. However you seem enraged that someone may accept its essence but not its literality. Well if you are truly a tolerant person, you should recognize that people have the God given ability to think and ponder everything. You should also be humble enough to consider that you may be wrong in your approach and your intransience[sic] leads good people away from God.

I'm not seeing any signs of CofA being "enraged", "intolerant" or "intransigent (that is what you meant, right?)". Nor is there a lack of "humility". Just someone arguing her point using both logic as well as Biblical examples to back it up. What do your rebuttals offer other than a denial of a literal meaning to an important issue Christians should be clear on? Are YOU humble enough to admit you could be wrong in both your approach as well as your opinion? I would think "good" people, who are sincerely looking into the topic might appreciate a strongly supported basis for an argument. So far, I haven't been convinced you have one.

[boatbums]

Yes exactly what I said, ;almost; Philip went out to preach the gospel, he did not hang around and preach to the other Members of the Church. He did not sing to the quire like is taking place here on freeper.

Are you aware that the Apostles and disciples of Jesus went out and established churches AFTER they led a group to faith in Jesus? They didn't just do a hit and run but stuck around long enough to make sure local assemblies had strong leaders, firm in the faith and able to teach and lead their congregations in growing their faith. Read Paul's letters to Timothy. He was a young man Paul led to the lord and discipled, training him to be a leader and be able to train others in the faith. That CHOIR had to learn to sing from someone didn't they? There's more to being a Christian than the initial act of faith, receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and believing in Him. New believers start out as "babes" who can only drink the "milk of the word", but, as they grow in grace and the knowledge of Christ, they can ingest "strong meat" and get deeper into the full knowledge of all that God desires for us to know. Faith is a growing thing - it needs spiritual food - and God gifts His children with pastors, teachers and leaders to help them.

As for what I and others do on FR RF, sometimes we ARE preaching to the choir - encouraging each other and discussing theological topics. Sometimes, though, it IS a way to evangelize as we do not know who might be reading a thread at any point in time. God directs people here, I really believe that - they are "divine appointments". I've received Freepmails from more than a few. Nothing wrong with preaching to the choir, though!

[ravenwolf]

Read Paul's letters to Timothy. He was a young man Paul led to the lord and discipled, training him to be a leader and be able to train others in the faith ------------------------------------------------- Yes, and are you aware that Paul also circumcised Timothy in fear of the Jews, a grown man wow I bet that was bad. There's more to being a Christian than the initial act of faith, receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and believing in Him. >>>>>> That is right John 14 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 6 31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. Mathew 22 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.  Matthew 25 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[BroJoeK]

redleghunter post #185: "For if a Christian believes Jesus performed miracles defying our physical laws how is Genesis 1-3 so hard to accept?"

boatbums post #195: "Amen! Is anything to hard for God? "

Bingo! We have a winner, and there it is: the gateway to understanding.

Genesis (the Bible) is not "all about" science, it's all about God -- how God created science, how God rules over science and how God, on occasion, over-rules science.
And that is what you must believe, regardless of what today's science may say on any particular subject.

If you can't believe God rules science, then you're not a believer, period, and little of the Bible makes sense.
But once you accept that God rules science, then all these little details we learn from science (i.e., big bang, old earth, evolution) are irrelevant to the Bible's message.

Today's science may or may not be overturned by tomorrow's discoveries, but the Bible's message cannot be overturned by anything humans say or do.

Agreed?

[Partisan Gunslinger]

Waiting to be in the flesh then.

[BroJoeK]

ravenwolf: "If we take the Bible literally we can see that Adam was made after the six day creation because there was no man to till the ground even though every thing including man was already made."

Come on, pal, Genesis one & two are very short, you can read them in ten minutes -- can't you take just a little time to verify before you start spouting off nonsense?

Genesis 1 clearly, unequivocally, absolutely & positively says mankind was created on Day Six, go read it.

Genesis 2 suggests, but does not explicitly say, that God began creating mankind, "from the dust of the ground" at the end of Day Two -- go read it!
"Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up..."

Those were the Work of Day Three, and what it suggests is that God's creation of mankind did not happen "overnight", or even in one "God-day", but rather over a lengthy period of time, from the end of Day Two until Day Six.

For those concerned that Genesis 1 restricts a God-day to 24 human hours, in several places the Bible tells us that a God-day is much longer than a human day, and indeed suggests that God-time is whatever He wants it to be.

[Resettozero]

there was noone else there to be affected by the length of the day.

We know that angels sang at the Creation to the Glory of God.

We know that the Son of God was present during the Creation and later Jesus could have corrected Moses' "mistake".

No, the Word of God is correct and is for believers, for those seeking God, not for doubters.

[Resettozero]

Thank you for this post. Even if it were cut and pasted, I still appreciate it.

[Resettozero]

Its interesting that your “rebuttals” do not disagree with the essence of Genesis. However you seem enraged that someone may accept its essence but not its literality. Well if you are truly a tolerant person, you should recognize that people have the God given ability to think and ponder everything. You should also be humble enough to consider that you may be wrong in your approach and your intransience leads good people away from God.

Now THAT is a not-so-subtle arrogant response.

As one who seems to be in agreement with CofA on many points, I perceive your lackadaiscal approach to believing the accounts in Genesis as written can be carried over to Jesus Christ Himself.

Many posters on FR RF forum threads over time have demoted Our Only Savior Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God, to just a good teacher and all 'round nice guy. Are you one of those FReepers who has imagined Jesus less authoritative than He is? I hope not and suggest you strive "to err" on the side of a "literal" Word of God.

[Partisan Gunslinger]

One little word (from a child?) will slay him. When all is said and done, many people won't believe what idiots we have been to buy any of the lies and what a puny no-longer-lovely deceiver he turns out to be.

Yeah, they'll be embarrassed:

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Their close-mindedness will cause them to follow the wrong messiah.

[Partisan Gunslinger]

If you want us to accept this argument, then you’d have to apply it consistently. So, every time that the word “day” is used in the Bible, you must substitute “thousand years”. Otherwise, you are not following the first sentence, but actually claiming that God changes this principle whenever it’s convenient for your interpretation.

No, we study to know when a day is a day to us and when a day is a day to God:

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

[Partisan Gunslinger]

In eternity, there is no such thing as time. Time has no relation to God; it does not exist for him. So, for God - and for us, as well, in heaven, one day is no different than a thousand years, a hundred thousand years or a million years. But, when God DOES speak of a day in earth time and specifically says "evening and morning", then He IS talking about a literal, 24-hour day - like in Genesis.

Or the evening and morning were the first part of the day and the second part of the "day". Regardless, "generations" of man does not occur in a 24 hour day.

[Partisan Gunslinger]

The Cain side were in the image of GOD. The Seth side were in Adam's image.

What was the difference?

[Partisan Gunslinger]

Whatever THAT is supposed to mean. Just how 'perfect' was he? "Be ye therefore perfect..."

Umm, it's a verse in the bible:

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

You've never seen this verse? What does it mean to you?

[Partisan Gunslinger]

Like comets?

No, but who knows. Some American Indian tribes have legends of having to live underground when the heavens got too close to the earth. Was this Noah's flood, and was this God's way of saving their ancestors? I don't know. God could have saved the peoples of the earth how He wanted to. With Noah He chose an ark.

[verga]

I'm learning that RCC teaching veers away too much from the Gospel preached by Paul. And it has become more apparent to me why it must...for the RCC to exist as a "Christian" church.

Actually it is ONLY the Catholic Church that is in line with Paul's theology.

1Co 10:15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. 1Co 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a communion of the body of Christ? 1Co 10:17 seeing that we, who are many, are one bread, one body: for we are all partake of the one bread.

1Co 11:23 For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; 1Co 11:24 and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me. 1Co 11:25 In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the Lord's death till he come.

Notice that Paul states he received it from the Lord.

Don't let the facts get in the way of prot errors.

[Resettozero]

Actually it is ONLY the Catholic Church that is in line with Paul's theology.

Happy All-American Thanksgiving Day!