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To: wmfights

Can you give any scriptural support to the Day of the Lord being or coinciding with the Great Tribulation?

There are many which I think clearly delineate between the two. 2 Thessalonians 2 indicates that the anti-Christ has to be revealed BEFORE the Day of the Lord. His revealing appears to be at the abomination of desolation which is at the middle of Daniel’s seventieth week.

As I mentioned earlier, the signs in the heavens follow the Great Tribulation but precede the Day of the Lord.

During Daniel’s seventieth week, the anti-Christ exalts himself, especially beginning with the abomination of desolation.

But in Isaiah 2, it says that the Lord alone will be exalted in that day. Isaiah 2:10-21 is clearly alluded to by Revelation 6 as to what happens in the Day of the Lord.

There are two aspects of Christ’s coming — one in which we meet Him in the air, another in which He plants His feet on the Mount of Olives. There is one in which His angels gather the elect from the four winds, but another in which the angels gather the wicked to remove them.

The problem is that when Christ describes His return “immediately after” the Great Tribulation, He specifically links this to the signs in the heavens and the gathering of the elect. Where does this event happen in the Revelation?

In Revelation 6 and 7, there are signs in the heavens, the coming of God’s wrath, the sealing of elect Jews, and the arrival of believers in Heaven from all nations.

When do Jews turn to Christ? Isn’t it at His visible return? They shall look on Him whom they have pierced and mourn. (See Zechariah 12:10.)

If not then, when? When is the whole purpose of Daniel’s seventieth week fulfilled? When will transgressions cease and all Israel be saved? Will Israel remain in ignorance and unbelief right up until Christ returns with His armies and destroys anti-Christ? When will they look on Him and repent?

If Christ comes at the beginning of Revelation 6, where do these many believers come from who are beheaded for the word of God in 6:9-11?

When does God send people “strong delusion” as in 2 Thessalonians 2? If He sends strong delusion, where do all these believers come from?

There are many martyrs in 6:9-11, and then there are multitudes that “come out of Great Tribulation” in 7:14. How is this possible when God says He will send the strong delusion on those who did not receive the love of the truth? If the Church has been raptured out before all these things, who will preach the gospel to them so these people believe?

If they did not believe during the dispensation of God’s super-abounding grace, with God’s Spirit poured out and convicting mankind, with messengers sent out to reap the harvest; how will they repent when God has ended this era and the era of wrath has begun, with no messengers left to preach the Gospel?

God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation. In this world we will have tribulation, but we are to be encouraged because Christ has overcome the world.


22 posted on 11/23/2014 7:24:50 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: unlearner; wmfights
Wow! So many questions. There are a few things one must understand before the answers to those questions will come clear.

First, there are seven years left of the 490 years God promised to deal specifically with Israel as a nation. That includes the laws given to that nation. In order for that to happen the "body of Christ" or the "assembly" of New Testament believers where their is no Jew or Gentile must end.

Second, the "assembly" of believers is collectively the "bride of Christ" and as such will be the bride in the wedding ceremony. In the ancient Jewish wedding ceremony the bride and groom were sequestered for seven days before coming out into the world as husband and wife. That seven days is the earthly symbol of Christ and His bride sequestered in heaven for seven years prior to coming into the world.

Third, those who study and understand prophesy will know who the anti Christ is the day the peace treaty with Israel is signed.

>>Can you give any scriptural support to the Day of the Lord being or coinciding with the Great Tribulation?<<

Simply a search for passages that reference the "day of the Lord" will show that it coincides with the destruction of the wickedness on earth.

>>His revealing appears to be at the abomination of desolation which is at the middle of Daniel’s seventieth week.<<

As I said earlier in this post. A simple study of prophesy shows that the anti Christ will be known to those who study prophesy the minute he signs the peace treaty at the beginning of the seven years. That's three and a half years before He sets up in the temple.

>>But in Isaiah 2, it says that the Lord alone will be exalted in that day. Isaiah 2:10-21 is clearly alluded to by Revelation 6 as to what happens in the Day of the Lord.<<

In Revelation 6 the Lord is not exalted He is feared. Nor do all of the idols disappear because we see later there is still idols of the anti Christ.

The phrase "in the day of the Lord" is highly misunderstood and much contested. Some believe the "day of the Lord" is a period of time. Others believe it to be the end of this age when Christ conquers the unbelieving world and His kingdom on earth begins. I believe that confusion comes from ascribing the phrase "in that day" to mean "the day of the Lord". I can't find proof of that connection anywhere in scripture. In Acts 2 Jesus says this:

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

That plus many verses that use the phrase "for the day of the LORD is at hand" when talking about the events of the tribulation period indicate that the actual "day of the Lord" is the end of the tribulation period and not the entirety of it. So the phrase "the day of the LORD is at hand" means that it is near. The events of the tribulation from Revelation 6 on are leading up to the "day of the Lord".

25 posted on 11/24/2014 7:38:54 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: unlearner; wmfights
>>When do Jews turn to Christ? Isn’t it at His visible return? They shall look on Him whom they have pierced and mourn. (See Zechariah 12:10.)<<

The only for sure saved from the nation of Israel are the 144,000 comprised of 12,000 chosen from each tribe. The term "look on Him whom they have pierced and mourn" doesn't necessarily mean they are saved. In Revelation 1:7 we read this;

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

So we see that it's all the people of the earth that will mourn, not just the saved.

>>If Christ comes at the beginning of Revelation 6, where do these many believers come from who are beheaded for the word of God in 6:9-11?<<

Just as their were those saved prior to Christ there will be those saved after the "assembly" is "caught up". God's word (scripture) will still be available and there will be preaching and witness led by the two witnesses.

>>When does God send people “strong delusion” as in 2 Thessalonians 2? If He sends strong delusion, where do all these believers come from?<<

Look at the context.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

The strong delusion is given those who "received not the love of the truth". The believers are those who did receive the love of truth and are killed for that belief. Those are the ones who would not follow the anti Christ.

26 posted on 11/24/2014 8:27:05 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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