How (Pope) Francis Is Befriending the Pentecostals

Chiesa ^ | November 19, 2014 | Sandro Magister

[NYer]

In Latin America, they're pulling millions of faithful away from the Catholic Church. But the pope has only words of friendship for them. This is his way of doing ecumenism, unveiled here in two of his video messages

by Sandro Magister

ROME, November 19, 2014 - With the mastery for which it is known all over the world, the Washington-based Pew Research Center has conducted a survey on a massive scale that gives substance to a fact that was already known in general terms, the startling decline of Catholic membership in the Latin American subcontinent:

> Religion in Latin America. Widespread Change in a Historically Catholic Region

In the geographical area that is used today to indicate the new center of mass of the worldwide Catholic Church, midway through the last century almost the entirety of the population, 94 percent, was made up of Catholics. And still in 1970 Catholics were in the overwhelming majority, at 92 percent.

But then came the collapse. Today the proportion of Catholics is 23 points lower, at 69 percent of the population. The negative record belongs to Honduras, where Catholics have dropped to under half, from 94 to 46 percent. To get an idea of how sharp the decline has been, it should be enough to think that it has taken place entirely within the time span of the episcopal ministry of Cardinal Óscar Andrés Rodríguez Maradiaga, archbishop of Tegucigalpa and coordinator of the eight cardinals called by Pope Francis to assist him in the governance of the universal Church.

The collapse in the number of Catholics has been accompanied everywhere by the exuberant growth of "evangelical" and Pentecostal Christians, of Protestant descent. This was known too, but the Pew Research Center has highlighted that those who are passing from one membership to another are not usually the most lukewarm in their faith, but the most fervent.

The converts to the "evangelical" communities turn out, in fact, to be much more dynamic in propagating the Christian faith. And there is also a difference in helping the poor. While the Catholics assist them and that's it, the "evangelicals" are not only more active in works of charity, but also do not miss the opportunity to preach the Christian faith to the poor.

There is also a great discrepancy in religious practice. In Argentina, for example, the "evangelicals" who put great emphasis on religion in their lives, pray every day and go to church every week are 41 percent, while the Catholics are just 9 percent and take last place in the rankings together with Chile and secularized Uruguay.

The survey of the Pew Research Center also demonstrates that converts from Catholicism to the "evangelical" communities are not drawn by greater leniency on the matters of abortion or homosexuality.

The reality is the opposite. Those most resolute in opposing abortion and marriage between persons of the same-sex are found among the neo-Protestants, not among the Catholics.

In Argentina, for example, more than half of Catholics, 53 percent, say they are in favor of homosexual "marriage," which is already legal in that country. While among the neo-Protestants those in favor are 32 percent.

The survey of the Pew Research Center is a must-read, rich as it is in data on this epochal phenomenon.

And it is therefore understandable that a pastor like Jorge Mario Bergoglio - who as an Argentine has experienced in person the collapse of Catholic membership in his country and on the continent - should wish to act accordingly.

Otherwise there is no explanation, in fact, for the incessant efforts that Pope Francis is undertaking with the world leaders of those "evangelical" and Pentecostal movements that in Latin America are the most fearful competitors of the Catholic Church. Not to fight them, but to make them his friends.

It is an effort that he began long before his election as pope, and that most recently had its most conspicuous moment in the visit that he made to Caserta last July 27 to meet the Pentecostal pastor Giovanni Traettino, who has been his friend since he was archbishop of Buenos Aires:

> Francis's Secret Friend in Caserta

In the addressee gave on that occasion, Pope Francis presented his vision of ecumenical relations as"unity in diversity": a sort of universal Church in the form of a prism of which the Catholic Church would be one facet, on a par with the other Churches and denominations.

It is not clear how Francis might harmonize this vision of his with what is stated by the previous magisterium of the Church in matters of ecumenism. The fact is that he takes it greatly to heart, as emerges from the frequent informal talks that he gives to one or another of the “evangelical” pastors he encounters.

Pope Bergoglio usually receives them at Santa Marta. Or he reaches them in various places of the world with live video messages.

And the words that he says on these occasions, which never appear in the official Vatican sources, make the rounds when the recipients post them on the web, with evident satisfaction.

One recent encounter of this kind between the Pope and "evangelical" leaders took place at Santa Marta during the synod last October. Francis received the widow and coworkers of a bishop of the Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches, Tony Palmer, a longtime friend from South Africa who died in a car accident last July.

A few months earlier, Francis had sent a powerful video message to a meeting presided over by Palmer and another leading "evangelical" personality, Texas-based pastor Kenneth Copeland, a proponent of the "theology of prosperity," both of whom the pope had received in Rome on June 24.

The Popes message begins four minutes into this video:

> Ecumenismo. Papa Francisco envía mensaje de unidad a cristianos evangélicos

While here is a link to the encounter in October, where the pope had at his side (see photo) Palmer's widow, Emiliana, and the "evangelical" bishop who succeeded him, Robert Wise:

> The miracle of unity

While the following is a transcription and translation from the original Spanish of the words spoken by Francis, with his vision of ecumenism.

__________



“LET’S NOT WAIT FOR THE THEOLOGIANS TO COME TO AN AGREEMENT”

Pope Francis to the leaders of the Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches


First of all, I congratulate you for your courage. Yesterday at the entrance to the synod hall I ran into a Lutheran bishop and I said to him: “You here? What courage!” Because in another era they burned the Lutherans alive… [laughter].

Yesterday there was a meeting organized by Tony [Palmer]. He was enthusiastic about it, as was I, and I am grateful to Archbishop Robert Wise and to Emiliana who have wanted to take up the torch, the “fiaccola” [in Italian], the torch of this dream, this dream that Tony had. The dream of walking in unity.

We are sinning against the will of Christ, because we are looking only at the differences. But we all have the same baptism, and baptism is more important than the differences. We all believe in the Father, in the Son, and in the Holy Spirit. We all have within the Holy Spirit who prays, "now" for us, the spirit who prays in us.

And everyone must know that there is also a father of lies, the father of all divisions, the "anti-Father," the devil who gets in and divides, divides… Tony talked about this a lot, about this going forward and walking, walking together in what unites us. And that the Lord Jesus with his power may help us so that what divides us may not divide us too much.

I don't know, it's crazy… Having a treasure and preferring to use imitations of the treasure. The imitations are the differences, what matters is the treasure. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the vocation to holiness, the same baptism and the call to preach the Gospel to the ends of the world. The certainty is that he is with us where we are going… He is not with me only because I am Catholic; he is not with me because I am Lutheran; he is not with me because I am Orthodox… A theological madhouse! [laughter].

Each one has his own identity, and I presuppose that each of us is seeking the truth. So let's walk together. Let's pray for each other and do works of charity together. Matthew 25, together. And the Beatitudes, together. And we all have talented theologians in our churches. May they do the work of theological study. This is also another form of walking. But let's not wait for them to come to an agreement… [laughter]. This is what I believe [applause].

There's something else. This is called spiritual ecumenism, but there is something else. Today we are witnessing the persecution of Christians and… I was just in Albania… They told me that they didn't ask if you were Catholic or Orthodox… Are you Christian? Boom! Currently in the Middle East, in Africa, in many places, how many Christians have died! They don't ask them if they are Pentecostal, Lutheran, Calvinist, Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox… Are they Christians? They kill them because they believe in Christ. This is the ecumenism of blood.

I remember: once I was in Hamburg, around 1986 or ‘87, and I met a priest. And the priest was working on the cause of beatification for a Catholic priest who had been guillotined by the Nazis because he taught the catechism to the young people. But in studying he had seen the list of those condemned to death that day, and right behind him there was a Lutheran pastor who was sentenced for the same thing. So the blood of the priest was mingled with that of the pastor. The priest went to the bishop and said to him: “Either I'm moving the two causes forward together, or I'm not doing anything." Ecumenism of blood.

I don't know, there's nothing more I want to say, I don't know… Just one other thing that Tony talked about, when he was a young man. In South Africa, in the schools, whites and persons of color went together, played together, but at lunchtime they were separated and said: "We want to eat together." He had that desire within: to walk together in order to be able to eat together at the banquet of the Lord [applause]. As the Lord wills, as the Lord wills.

I would like to thank Father Robert Wise for his presence, Tony's spiritual father. And the presence of Emiliana, a strong woman… They both inherit many things from Tony. We must recognize that he is the one who has brought us together. I don't know if this desire for unity, to continue forward creating unity, praying for each other, fulfilling the Beatitudes together, fulfilling Matthew 25 together… Without making an institution, freely, like brothers.

[NYer]

In Latin America, they're pulling millions of faithful away from the Catholic Church.

In so doing, they ignore the very scripture they proclaim:

Thus I aspire to proclaim the gospel not where Christ has already been named, so that I do not build on another's foundation, but as it is written: "Those who have never been told of him shall see, and those who have never heard of him shall understand."
Romans 15:20-21

[Jim Noble]

Mark 9:38-40. It's right in the Book.

[SevenofNine]

That so true especially in Los Angeles there is lot of Latinos who covert to Evangical churches

[Steve_Seattle]

"In so doing, they ignore the very scripture they proclaim . . . "

A legitimate point, but I wonder if the alternatives are not simply Catholicism versus evangelicalism, but rather Catholicism versus evangelicalism versus apostasy or atheism. In other words, are the evangelicals converting people from Catholicism to evangelicalism, or are they saving lukewarm or apostate Catholics from indifference and agnosticism via conversion to evangelicalism?

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

I’m a Pentacostal. I don’t care if someone comes to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ through the Assemblies of God, the Roman Catholic Church, the Methodist Church, the Russian Orthodox Church, the Southern Baptist Church, the Syrian Coptic Church, the small non-demoninational Church in a storefront downtown, or the big mega-Church out on the highway.

As long as Christ is preached and his Gospel is proclaimed, I don’t care.

Let’s save souls rather than bickering about who is sitting at what table for the banquet afterwards.

[NorthMountain]

Amen, brother!

[Steve_Seattle]

Good comment.

[MeganC]

My church congregation supports missionaries in Honduras who over the past five years have built a high school, an elementary school, a health clinic, and now they’re raising funds to build a hospital. They hold church services in the school’s cafeterias as opposed to building a church.

They’ve also seen their congregations grow from less than twenty people five years ago to now over ten thousand. And every one of those people was Catholic five years ago. The Catholic church has more or less abandoned Honduras and the evangelicals are coming in unopposed to meet the physical, educational, and spiriritual needs of these people.

[Kackikat]

The book of ACTS when 3000 where filled with Holy Spirit, and each spoke in tongues, STILL AVAILABLE TO REAL CHRISTIANS.

However some are CINOs, Christians in name only...not really believers in Holy Spirit and his power.

In 1967 the second large group of infilling of the Holy Spirit was in NOTRE DAME University conference...3000 (note the number) were Baptised in Holy Ghost (Spirit)..it was the beginning of that second great awakening and impacted America for more than twenty years, in fact some are still being impacted.

I believe a third wave is coming to those who aren’t HERETICS and have open hearts. The Catholic Charismatic movement hit the Protestant churches and there were MILLIONS who are now part of that movement.

Around 1900 in San Francisco there was the first movement at a meeting where AMY MCPHERSON was ministering and that was the beginning of the Charismatic movement for the Pentecostals in America.

PENTECOST...REMEMBER THE BOOK OF ACTS.

The Holy Spirit is the third part of the trinity, and if you read the Bible you will find JESUS SAID that he had to go the Father so that the COMFORTER (Holy Spirit) could come. WEll just what part of that don’t you get?

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!

http://www.openbible.info/topics/the_unpardonable_sin

[rcofdayton]

Thank you!

[dadfly]

i’m with you brother.

[NYer]

Romans 15:20-21

[steve86]

I probably convert too, or maybe just abandon organized religion altogether if all I had was the Vatican II nonsense.

[Kackikat]

Amen!

[NYer]

A legitimate point, but I wonder if the alternatives are not simply Catholicism versus evangelicalism ...

Not when St. Paul wrote his Epistle to the Romans. The same holds true today.

[NYer]

I probably convert too, or maybe just abandon organized religion altogether if all I had was the Vatican II nonsense.

Why do we go to church on Sunday? Is it to socialize with other parishioners? Is it to be entertained? Is it to commiserate about the priest assigned to the parish or the bishop who shepherds the diocese?

We go to church on Sunday to WORSHIP GOD!

Having grown up with the Latin Mass, survived the change to the Novus Ordo and visited several Eastern Catholic Churches, each week I remind myself of my purpose for attending mass on Sunday ... to worship God. Perhaps the NO liturgy is not to my liking or the priest / bishop is a progressivist, our purpose remains the same. Moreover, it is in the Catholic Church that we truly encounter God through the Eucharist. As bad as some of the liturgies I have attended over the decades, my focus has remained on Jesus Christ who comes to me each week in the Eucharist. Those who abandon the Catholic Church for an Evangelical one, abandon the living Christ. They may hear His words but they cannot receive Him, body, soul and divinity.

[CynicalBear]

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3227866/posts

[Praxeologue]

converts from Catholicism to the "evangelical" communities are not drawn by greater leniency on the matters of abortion or homosexuality.

The reality is the opposite. Those most resolute in opposing abortion and marriage between persons of the same-sex are found among the neo-Protestants, not among the Catholics.

The people want the Bible's teaching, not flexibility.

[CynicalBear]

>>Jesus Christ who comes to me each week in the Eucharist.<<

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

I truly feel sorry for Catholics.