Posted on 11/16/2014 1:42:01 PM PST by NYer
I do so wish you'd make up your mind!
We aren't SAVED by keeping commandments, but we are LOST by NOT keeping them?!?!?
Yes!
No one that is deliberately not keeping the commandments, and especially teaching others to do the same has any chance. That is the very definition of a “worker of iniquity.”
Grace is paying for the sins we committed before we had knowledge of his Way, not for the arrogance of demanding a get-out-of-hell-free card.
If you’re his, you are working on pleasing him, and only keeping his commandments will ever do that job.
“Blessed is he that has part in the first resurrection”
Sound familiar?
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
John 5:28-29
[28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Two resurrections, 1000 years apart.
The GWT is a resurrection unto death, the “second death.”
Well laid out post. Indeed He has promised those who are His sheep will have the corrupt replaced with incorruptible. For that is the only way to enter His Glorious Kingdom.
>>> Grace is paying for the sins we committed before we had knowledge of his Way, not for the arrogance of demanding a get-out-of-hell-free card.
You keep referring to the Gift of God as a “get-out-of-hell-free card”.
By relating the price paid for our sin to a game card, you diminish the work of Christ in mocking fashion.
For us the sinner, the gift of salvation IS free... it costs us NOTHING... otherwise it would not be a gift. Would you deny that salvation is a gift? I wonder.
Regardless, the “get-out-of-hell-free” card as you put it is nothing of the sort... while it costs us nothing, it cost God EVERYTHING! Our salvation is NOT free! It cost Jesus more than anyone will ever know... and for you to cheapen his sacrifice in this way invites God’s wrath.
One could even argue that such mockery of God’s gift is to speak against the Holy Spirit... because His ministry and sacrifice WAS and IS a work of the Holy Spirit. I am not claiming that you are guilty of the unforgivable sin. I am saying that you are treading on very thin ice.
Maybe you are not as righteous as you think you are.
Thanks for explaining this.
They are in REVERSE order in the Bible.
OH?
Then WHY open the BoL??
According to the Book:
Revelation 20:11-15 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
We are saved by grace through faith and not by our works.
Your statement seems to me to be a perfect example of eisegesis, considering the impossibility of synthesizing it with the below passage.
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.We are saved by grace alone, through faith/works done in charity and inspired by the Spirit. Luther undoubtedly read this passage. How he reconciled his novel doctrine of "faith alone" with these passages is ultimately a mystery, but probably related to his scrupulosity.But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
***
"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing."
Have you ever considered the possibility that I'm NOT a Lutheran? I don't have any Lutheran materials anyway. But, what would be true is that where Luther and the other reformers sought to bring the Catholic church BACK to the faith once delivered unto the saints and especially those that corrupted and perverted the gospel of the grace of God. So, no, there isn't any problem rectifying the doctrine with the book of James.
We are saved by grace alone, through faith/works done in charity and inspired by the Spirit. Luther undoubtedly read this passage. How he reconciled his novel doctrine of "faith alone" with these passages is ultimately a mystery, but probably related to his scrupulosity.
I don't understand how some don't see the blatant contradiction and impossibility of such an eisegesis. The only "novelty" was that of the nullification of the word of God by the traditions that crept into the religion of Catholicism. Should everyone forget all about the many passages from Paul's epistles that clearly teach it is grace through faith and NOT of our works that we are saved (Eph. 2:8,9) so that they can "make sense" of a small passage in James? Did not the SAME Holy Spirit breathe the truth to both writers? There are no contradictions in Scripture. Paul is dealing with principles and James with the practical.
Jesus told people that unless their righteousness exceeded that of the scribes and Pharisees, they could not enter the kingdom of heaven.
He elaborated on the Law in Matthew 5-7, that it’s a matter of the heart, not the actions.
The Pharisees had all the actions down, and Jesus called them vipers, white washed tombs, etc.
Anyone hung up on obeying the Law outwardly is missing what forgiveness and Christ and His righteousness is all about.
Go ahead and try to work your way to heaven and let us know how that works out for you.
Your post makes no sense.
It is contrary to the clear words of Yeshua and the apostles.
Especially his favorite apostle, John.
John says that his commandments are not grievous, you say they are.
John says that if you are not keeping his commandments, you do not know him, you say the opposite.
Who do I trust?
>> “Then WHY open the BoL??” <<
.
Because Yeshua is a righteous judge, not an arbitrary martinet.
No, they are not in reverse order.
Are you talking about the way REv 20 is worded?
It is because the subject is the first resurrection, and the GWT is only mentioned as an aside. He was talking specifically about the blessing of being a part of the First resurrection, didn’t you read those words?
Is there a blessing in the GWT? No! it is unto the second death.
That's because spiritual truths are spiritually discerned and the man without the Spirit cannot understand the things of God. They are foolishness to him.
There was nothing spiritual in that pile of mud.
Your rejection of the plain and simple truths of the scripture cannot be blamed on the Holy
Spirit.
prov 24-16, see also 1cor 6,9-10
There was everything Spiritual in metmom's response to you. Maybe it's your comments that aren't any clearer than mud. You continue to contradict yourself as well as clear Scripture. One post you admit that we are saved by grace and the next you assert we aren't saved unless we obey the "Torah" and "endure to the end" doing so. Make up your mind! You've been asked to clarify what you are referring to as "Torah" as well as these "commandments" Jesus gave us that are not "grievous". You have brushed it off by insisting you already HAVE, but never point to WHERE you have done so.
Nobody here is preaching that we should ignore doing what is right or think being in obedience to God is something we can brush off as if Christians can take it or leave it or it isn't important to living the Christian life, honoring God. What we ARE saying - and Scripture overwhelmingly supports - is that it is NOT by our works of Law OR our works of righteousness OR our works of charity or ANYTHING we must add to the finished work of Jesus Christ other than to receive the gift of God which is eternal life by His grace THROUGH faith. We are saved because of Christ, and not we ourselves - no matter how good we are or how faithfully we follow Torah. Continue to trust in your own goodness, merit and works and depend on your deserving of heaven if you wish. Just don't expect that believers are going to fall for your bullying and pronouncements of condemnation on others just because we don't see things your - or Rood's - way.
Here's another link you might want to take a look at when you get a chance:
"Saint Augustine on Purgatory" by Dr. Taylor Marshall.
Various Protestants believe various things about what humans have to do to be saved (including possibly saying the "sinner's prayer", "accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior", getting baptized, etc.)
No matter what they believe a human has to do to be saved, there is always something, even if it is just a tiny little action like those mentioned here. And I do not think very many Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox Christians would try to claim that as soon as they believed and accepted that salvation of God, they all of a sudden became completely perfect and holy, and stopped sinning completely, and did not need to grow in their virtue and holiness by the Grace of God.
However, I appreciate your taking the time to lay out your beliefs like you did there, and maybe we can both pray for each other that we'll both grow in wisdom and knowledge and understanding concerning these important matters.
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