Posted on 10/27/2014 10:02:19 AM PDT by Colofornian
I have read the Book of Mormon and found it to be insightful for the most part, but also found a few mis perceptions. For example it tells how to test a spirit by feeling the warmth of its hand. I’ve had high demonic spirits that are not afraid of the light and will actually reach into it to fool you as you feel the warmth of the light and think it is their hand that is warm.
Just my humble opinion. (and I always reserve the right to be wrong!)
Well, I won't speak to RC now...(and therefore immediately convert this into a RC thread)... but the Bottom line is really this:
The LDS are the "rules oriented" ones:
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Example 1...from the Book of Mormon:
Q. According to the Book of Mormon, who initiates grace -- man or God?
A. Man
Q. Where is that found?
A. Helaman 12:24 and 2 Nephi 25:23
And may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS. (Hel. 12:24)
If grace is "merited" "according to...works" -- then, sorry, "grace" is no longer "free." It's been turned on its head & 100% redefined. (Just try teaching your kids to merit their birthday & Christmas "gifts" "according to their works.")
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Example Two -- From a previous Mormon "prophet": The purity and perfection we seek is unattainable without this subjection of unworthy, ungodlike urges and the corresponding encouragement of their opposites. We certainly cannot expect the rules to be easier for us than for the Son of God... (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 28)
Just look @ all the "rule extensions" Lds have imposed upon their followers (see next post) in order to make it to the highest degree of afterlife...That is 19th-20th-21st century legalism!
In contrast, God's truth is "the concept of free and full forgiveness through Christ" rather than the "earned forgiveness taught in Mormonism."
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Example 3 -- from this Mormon Church publication piece written by one of their general authorities (Nelson), citing Mormon "scripture" Doctrine & Covenants 130:21 ... source: DIVINE LOVE (Is Also Conditional) MORMON (OPEN)
“When we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.” 28 ... The Lord declares: “All who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof. …
“And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God. “… The conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed … of him who is anointed, … are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead.” 30 ... Such a blessing is conditional. Those who fail to tithe have no promise.
Wow! Sounds like a good spiritual lawyer!! "The conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations...!!!
Taking a look into Nelson's "footnote 28" and its reference: “When we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.” 28 [Source: Doctrine & Covenants 130:21]
Do MORMONS believe that?
Do all Mormons believe that?
Do you think that ANY and ALL blessings from God are "predicated" upon "obedience to that law" that automatically triggers the blessing -- like some gambling slot machine...that if you just put in enough "obediences" out comes eventual "blessings?"
But if I could look you in the eye, and ask you, if religious legalism is "pleasant" and "forgiving" what might your response be?
Lds leaders impose law after law after law upon Mormons -- who must obey in order to be deemed "worthy"...
(1) You HAVE TO be obedient to all the commandments & ordinances of the Mormon god
(2) You HAVE TO tithe -- what Lds reference as the "Law of consecration"
(3) You HAVE TO obey the "Word of Wisdom" -- not drink coffee, etc.
(4) You HAVE TO follow the law of eternal marriage...get married -- sorry, no never-married single people allowed
(5) You HAVE TO have as many children as possible
(6) You HAVE TO perform temple work for the dead
(7) You HAVE TO perform endowments essential for this highest degree of salvation
(8) You HAVE TO be a member of the right church (Lds)
(9) You HAVE TO receive & perform the rites and ordinances established by that church
(10) You HAVE TO follow the 'prophet'
(11) You HAVE TO observe the law of the fast
(12) You HAVE TO -- as if it wasn't a "want to" -- "pray often"
(13) Instead of treating repentance as a God-given gift, you HAVE TO treat it as a "law" -- and if you commit the same sin over again, it nullifies any previous "repentance" you did regarding that sin, treating it as if you never repented
(14)You HAVE TO have Joseph Smith's consent to enter into your highest afterlife
And then, of course, there's the obvious Biblical laws (10 commandments) -- which the apostle Paul warned didn't lead to receiving the Spirit:
1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is EVERYONE who does not continue to do EVERYTHING written in the Book of the Law.” (Gal. 3:1-6, 10)
Well...there IS that.
You are right. Forget I mentioned RC. Meant to say Pepsi.
Sorry, but that isn't in the Book of Mormon.
Oh good grief...Semantics...it’s in the quad...but if you’re going to insist on splitting hairs and NOT [as usual] addressing the content TP, I’ll provide the source...
SECTION 129 Doctrine and Covenants [One of 4 Mormon books of scripture]
Instructions given by Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, February 9, 1843, making known three grand keys by which the correct nature of ministering angels and spirits may be distinguished. HC 5: 267.
http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/129
Most people who are writing the anti Mormon articles claim that Mormons are not Christian no more than are Moslems.
1 Corinthians 5
12
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Don`t the Churches have enough to worry about with these homosexuals and the men who are having sex with their step mothers with out worrying over some religion like Islam or Mormonism?
Why don`t they clean out their own Church like Paul said?
I could not care less about how many wives a moslem or a Mormon has, and although there is very little of this in the Mormon Church, by some of the articles you would think it was common.
The law is now in favor of sodomite marriage, why are these writers bringing attention to the Mormons?
Is it to cover up the real evil?
Kind of like blasting a man for getting married to a fourteen year old girl to cover for a man that raped a nine year old.
I realize that the article is not much about polygamy but it is what always comes up, it is just that I got to start it this time.
I do not believe in the book of Mormon so it does not worry me.
Polygamy is interesting because our Faith`s founding fathers started it or at least made it popular, or come to think of it maybe it was the wives who had the most to do with it.
There is no handshake test in the Book of Mormon, nor is there a 'warmth of its hand' test in anything I can recall.
Before I finish, may I suggest we deal with Islam for a while? I'm just a tad bit more concerned more concerned with Muslims in the Middle East and the closest mosque than I am with Latter-Day Saints (a few of whom, while technically 'Jack Mormons' are or have been Assistant Scoutmasters in my Troop). I go to LDS homes and they come to mine and I don't believe any of us fear a beheading or a suicide bomb when we do so.
Alright. There is no handshake test in the Book of Mormon. However, there is a handshake test in Doctrines & Covenants 129:
Instructions given by Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, February 9, 1843, making known three grand keys by which the correct nature of ministering angels and spirits may be distinguished. HC 5: 267.1-3
There are both resurrected and spirit bodies in heaven; 4-9, Keys are given whereby messengers from beyond the veil may be identified.
1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—
2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.
4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—
7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.
8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.
9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.
I'm working on a post about the percentage of Muslims who believe death is the appropriate penalty for apostasy. Let's meet there.
Please cite the corresponding chapter and verse.
I’ve had high demonic spirits that are not afraid of the light and will actually reach into it to fool you as you feel the warmth of the light and think it is their hand that is warm.
You've had demonic spirits? Do you mean that you've been possessed by them, or what?
Regards,
Sorry, not semantics. The poster claimed they had read the Book of Mormon but found mis perceptions. Clearly they were linking the two.
Yes, there is a discussion on distinguishing various types of angels and spirits in Mormon theology. But it is not in the Book or Mormon.
Demonic Mormonism Placemarker.
Ok, double talk, deflection, whatever you want to call it then...
t&r may not have named the correct book, but it is mormon doctrine regardless.
The D&C is in the quad alongside the BoM...a simple mistake for the uninitiated to call the D&C the “BoM”...
I really don’t care if he called it the Book of Abraham...the context is the same and his comment about testing spirits is pretty close to what is printed in the D&C.
Sounds like election time is just ‘round the corner. Gotta get psyched-up in case Mitt decides to run.
demons get high?
LOL..you know how we operate don’t you?
Old Marty ditched the RC Cola because he was racked with scruples, remember? Spiritual warfare and saintly perfection is drilled into us as children, and hell is just one mortal sin away. Pleasant, yeah, not so much.
Anyway side note. Carry on. :)
Unfortunately, there are those here who feel that the spiritual danger of Mormons is greater than the physical danger of liberalism or Islam. And actually, I understand where they are coming from - we do need to be very aware of our relationship with Christ. And they feel the existence of Mormonism harms their relationship (or harms others’ relationship with Christ).
Of course, I disagree with them. But long experience tells me that discussing it with them is fruitless. So I occasionally pop on to point out an incorrect statement.
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