Posted on 08/24/2014 10:55:16 AM PDT by wmfights
That’s your opinion.
It's not a strong suit of Catholics as they are never taught how to interpret Scripture since they are told they cannot and need someone to do it for them.
So they find canned arguments and try to present them as their own and quickly get tripped up as someone who does not really know what they are doing usually does.
For "blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." (Romans 11:25) But then God will reverse the curse, "And so all Israel [the natural branches coning to faith and joining the Israel of God as elect] shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away unGodliness from Jacob: (Romans 11:26)
But it seems some Caths do not believe this prophecy.
The Greek word that has been translated "all" means "all parts of" as in not just the 12,000 from the tribe of Judah (Jews) but representatives (12,000 of each) of "all" of Isreal will be saved. It is in reference to the separation of Israel.
They need the allagory for their interpretations to seem (in their mind) to work.
It’s obvious the CC has kept them from the guidance of the Holy Spirit for sure.
dated 2006, but it gives one a ballpark figure with which to compare To be among the richest 10% of adults in the world required US$61,000 in assets, and more than US$500,000 was needed to belong to the richest 1%
I ask, not for an answer but, to demonstrate how one has not kept the words of Jesus and how there is no visible path into the kingdom of God for such a rich man, however otherwise obedient to the Gospel. Yet there is a way not visible to men.
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
This is the most absurd strawman I have ever seen: One doesn't get to define dispensationalism. It is already defined... and the tenets thereof can be easily found. If one cares to be taken seriously, one should start from a point where one is not just making things up.
That reminds me...have you figured out yet the answer to the question I asked back two or three series ago? You know, the one about the “wife of Jehovah” vs. the “bride of Christ”???
Exactly right. Here, I think, is that very point:
Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Notice, This is all about Judah. The Jews. Whom we call Israel today. Not anyone else. Allegorize THAT.
I am not a dispensationalist, but I know plenty of them, and have argued often with them, and I agree with every bit of your statement.
I continue to post referenced links showing the Catholic Church does show mercy to Israel. There are those who reject Catholic teaching but why would one listen to them as representative of the Catholic Church ? Does Victoria Osteen represent what you believe and teach in its essence ?
Therefore you must pick and choose what “Israel” depicts based on your theological approach. Some places for you it really means Israel and in some places not. How very consistent/s.
Back to the subject at hand: Thanks for posting this series. It's been a great run, with lots of really good debate.
One of the pointers that I look at (wrt agreement with the above) is the very numerous prophecies relating to the theme of the restoration of all things... It is a major prophetic component, dealing not only with Israel, but also with the whole of creation. It is this view that keeps me profoundly in the pre-millenialist camp. How can it all be restored if it is all to be destroyed at Har Meggido?
I tend to not regard what the Catholic religion says but what the Catholic religion does...
We know the Catholic religion sides with the enemies of Israel, specifically the Palestinian muzlims and has since the creation of the Israeli Nation came to be...
We know that the Temple Mount which belongs to Israel is a major issue for the Catholic religion...The religion wants the Temple Mount for itself and is struggling politically to take over the Mount to supposedly benefit the 3 major religions as deemed by the Catholic religion...The list goes on and on...
From your posts and from my Catholic upbringing and education it seems to me the Catholic church gives its members wide latitude on this topic.
But you would not know that coming to FR.
Great point.
You might want to look at Part 11
Although there is a rich history of premillenial positions in the holy catholic apostolic church, as I have posted before, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that millenarianism cannot be safely taught. Here is another reference. Millenarianism (Chiliasm) * [Decree of the Holy Office, July 21, 1944] 2296 In recent times on several occasions this Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office has been asked what must be thought of the system of mitigated Millenarianism, which teaches, for example, that Christ the Lord before the final judgment, whether or not preceded by the resurrection of the many just, will come visibly to rule over this world. The answer is: The system of mitigated Millenarianism cannot be taught safely. Source of catholic dogma 2200-2300: Millenarianism (Chiliasm) 2296
This can be safely taught. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
Sharon expressed the country's condolences at the death of the pope during the opening of the weekly Cabinet meeting April 3.
"Pope John Paul II was a man of peace and a friend of the Jewish people…who worked for a historic reconciliation between the peoples," said Sharon.
"Yesterday, the world lost one of the most important leaders of our generation, whose great contribution to rapprochement and unity between peoples, understanding and tolerance will be with us for many years," Sharon said.
The prime minister said he was fortunate to have met the pope in 1999 while serving as foreign minister, and at that time he invited him to visit the Holy Land for millennial celebrations.
"At my meeting with him, I felt the pope's warm and admiring relations toward the Jewish people and the state of Israel," Sharon said.
The pope's visit to the Holy Land in 2000 when he was already 79 years old and sick brought hope for peace to Israelis and Palestinians, but six months later the intifada broke out, enveloping the region in more than four and a half years of violence, which the pope often lamented.
Opposition leader Shimon Peres called the pope a "true spiritual leader whose leadership extended beyond his traditional flock and believers, embracing the entire human family."
"He imbued the world not only with the spirit of greatness but also with a good spirit," said Peres. "The pope embodied the best that is within all mankind as well as the commonness of humanity. He united all of our hearts through his actions and his courage. Wherever he went, Pope John Paul II brought with him the gospels of love, hope and peace."
Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom, and possibly President Moshe Katzav, will represent Israel at the pope's funeral later this week, according to Israel Radio.
"John Paul II will be remembered as someone who showed his believers new paths to interfaith reconciliation and brotherhood," Katzav said in a statement.
"The Jewish people will remember John Paul II as someone who courageously stood up and put an end to a historic injustice when he officially disavowed the prejudices and accusations ... against the Jews that had multiplied in Catholic Church writings and among its believers," Katzav said.
Shalom said in a statement that the pope's "visionary drive" helped establish full relations between the Vatican and Israel.
Rabbi Ron Kronish, director of the Interreligious Coordinating Council in Israel, said the establishment of diplomatic ties created a whole new attitude of respect for the Catholic Church among Israelis, despite the difficulties and rough points in that relationship.
"Certainly most of the current Jewish leadership has met with the pope at one time or other and had great regard for what he has done (for Jewish-Catholic reconciliation)," he said.
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