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To: ealgeone
And by the way, the titles of Mary are all--- every one of them --- derivative from her relationship to her Son. If he is Christ the King, she is the Queen Mother. That's way the relationship language of the Bible works.

Everyone --- not just Mary --- needs to be a cooperator in Redemption, a cooperation which is totally subordinate to God, which is expressed very well by Paul:

Philippians 2:12-13
"Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure."

"Co-Redemptrix" (which is not a dogma of the Church) is a term which, if it came into use, could have two different, even opposite senses: a true orthodox one, and a false heretical one.

The Orthodox one (like any Marian title, like "Blessed" -- or like the title the Angel Gabriel gave her, "Kecharitomene" ---) would be a strictly subordinate and derivative meaning: Jesus is the unique and only Redeemer, being our incarnate Lord who died for us; Mary cooperated in His Incarnation; therefore she cooperated in the Redemption. His title means He is the Redeemer; hers means only that she played a role, she was a companion from beginning to end, she was a cooperator. ("Your own heart" said Simeon the Prophet, "A sword shall pierce.")

Quite the opposite would be a presumptuous assertion that she was or is Jesus' equal. She is not co-equal. Not Deity or Goddess or anything of the sort. Just a creature, a handmaid really, who depends of God as her Savior.

I think it's because of this likelihood of confusion between a true meaning and a false meaning --- that the Church has steered clear of attributing such a title.

79 posted on 07/20/2014 4:25:27 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When I grow up, I'm gonna settle down, chew honeycomb & drive a tractor, grow things in the ground.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
And by the way, the titles of Mary are all--- every one of them --- derivative from her relationship to her Son. If he is Christ the King, she is the Queen Mother. That's way the relationship language of the Bible works. Show me this in the Bible.

Everyone --- not just Mary --- needs to be a cooperator in Redemption, a cooperation which is totally subordinate to God, which is expressed very well by Paul:

Philippians 2:12-13 "Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure."

You have totally taken this out of context to attempt to justify a point.

"Co-Redemptrix" (which is not a dogma of the Church) is a term which, if it came into use, could have two different, even opposite senses: a true orthodox one, and a false heretical one.

It means the heretical one....it's why they said it goes beyond the text. At least they got that right.

The Orthodox one (like any Marian title, like "Blessed" -- or like the title the Angel Gabriel gave her, "Kecharitomene" ---)

You presume these are titles when they are not. The RCC has made them into titles.

Blessed is no where in caps in Luke except in Luke 1:42 where it is the first word in Elizabeth's greeting to Mary. It is in caps here because it's the first word in the sentence. No where else in the chapter is blessed in caps.

The base greek word is eulogeo which means to speak well of, I bless, pass, I am blessed. It is used 43 times in the NT in various ways. It is not a title.

Regarding "kecharitomene". In the text, unlike your post, this is not in caps. The base greek word, charitoo, means I favor, bestow freely on.

It is used twice in the NT. Here in Luke and in Ephesians 1:6. In both cases it is used to show God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).

In the Greek it properly reads as "Greetings, you favored with grace."

The Greek for greetings is chairo. It means I rejoice, am glad, also a salutation: Hail.

would be a strictly subordinate and derivative meaning: Jesus is the unique and only Redeemer, being our incarnate Lord who died for us; Mary cooperated in His Incarnation; therefore she cooperated in the Redemption.

This is a huge leap of reading something into the text that isn't there. It sounds nice and pretty, but it isn't a concept found in the Bible. Mary's role in the birth of Christ and being His mom is well documented and agreed upon by all. But beyond that she plays no other role in our salvation or prayer life. There is nothing in the Bible about this. It is all made-up by the RCC.

His title means He is the Redeemer; hers means only that she played a role, she was a companion from beginning to end, she was a cooperator. ("Your own heart" said Simeon the Prophet, "A sword shall pierce.")

The role she played is clearly outlined in Luke. There are no false titles like Queen of Heaven, etc, given to Mary by Luke.

Quite the opposite would be a presumptuous assertion that she was or is Jesus' equal. She is not co-equal. Not Deity or Goddess or anything of the sort.

Just a creature, a handmaid really, who depends of God as her Savior.

This you actually got right. She was a sinner in need of salvation like the rest of us.

I think it's because of this likelihood of confusion between a true meaning and a false meaning --- that the Church has steered clear of attributing such a title.

No....they know exactly what they are saying. It would elevate Mary to an equal role of Christ. That's why they're not going there.....yet.

83 posted on 07/20/2014 4:59:12 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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