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To: FourtySeven
Don't you think it's important to know if free will exists or not?

Well, for starters, we need to define *free will* because I don't find any Scripture anywhere that states it even exists.

I have this feeling that there's different meanings and we end up talking past each other.

My take is that there is no such thing as *free will*. Yes, we are told to choose, indicating that we have a choice to make, but that is NEVER free from external influences, so it is never totally *free*.

Jesus tells us that no man can come to God unless the Father draws him, which precludes coming to God of MY free volition.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

And, no, I do not see how one's opinion on free will makes a difference. I've read both sides of the argument, both the Arminian and Calvinist, and find their accusations against each other as to why they're wrong, to be less than well supported.

122 posted on 07/17/2014 9:29:41 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom; FourtySeven
How can whether one understands or believes in “free will” have anything to do with salvation? First of all there’s the Catholic issue of “it’s not mentioned in scripture” as we here about Sola Scriptura all the time. Then there’s the issue of Paul answering the jailer as to how he could be saved. Paul’s answer was a succinct “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”. Paul didn’t expound on “dogma” as to “free will” or any other such thing. Then there are the accounts of people being saved in scripture. Per one account 3,000 were saved. It is certain that they didn’t spend days, weeks or months being taught “dogma”. That applies to every “dogma” the Catholic Church demands people believe in.

If the Catholic Church is correct much of scripture is in error. But if scripture is correct than the Catholic Church is in error.

128 posted on 07/17/2014 10:41:16 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: metmom; FourtySeven
How can whether one understands or believes in “free will” have anything to do with salvation? First of all there’s the Catholic issue of “it’s not mentioned in scripture” as we here about Sola Scriptura all the time. Then there’s the issue of Paul answering the jailer as to how he could be saved. Paul’s answer was a succinct “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”. Paul didn’t expound on “dogma” as to “free will” or any other such thing. Then there are the accounts of people being saved in scripture. Per one account 3,000 were saved. It is certain that they didn’t spend days, weeks or months being taught “dogma”. That applies to every “dogma” the Catholic Church demands people believe in.

If the Catholic Church is correct much of scripture is in error. But if scripture is correct than the Catholic Church is in error.

129 posted on 07/17/2014 10:41:16 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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