Is There Growing Confusion over Church Teaching?

Crisis Magazine ^ | July 16, 2014 | Dr. William Oddie

[CynicalBear]

>> Actually, He thinks it’s cool when we pray to his Blessed Mother also. <<

Please provide the scripture where Jesus or that apostles taught that.

[defconw]

Jesus gave his Mother Mary to John the Younger and by extension to all of us. Brothers and Sisters in Christ , help me. :)

[CynicalBear]

>>I think those who strongly believe in Once Saved Always Saved teaching (OSAS), the way it is often presented, ultimately believe that they are saved by believing they are saved<<

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24)

[CynicalBear]

Check with the Catholic Church. Even they don’t consider them the infallible inspired word of God. Catholics are no different then Mormons accepting writings for their beliefs.

[metmom]

Jesus gave his Mother Mary to John the Younger and by extension to all of us.

And it says that where in Scripture, again?

[CynicalBear]

>> Jesus gave his Mother Mary to John the Younger and by extension to all of us.<<

And your scripture reference for your comment “by extension” is?????????????? And would you please show the apostles teaching the veneration of Mary?

[metmom]

That’s nice.

But that doesn’t address praying in a way that Jesus didn’t prescribe.

Doing one thing right doesn’t make all the wrong things OK.

[daniel1212]

When you actually have an argument in response to what i said, then a reply might be fitting.

[defconw]

I think Protestants will be saved, but they are missing the fullness. It is not really a concept that can be explained on here as it takes a lifetime. Of course they have their own doctrines, they just don't like to call them that. Of course every single Protestant will claim to not believe in this one or that one. So it goes.

We Catholics believe what we believe and no amount of caterwauling will change it. It is not forced upon us. It's an invitation, what we do with it is up to us. Free Will!

[daniel1212]

When we go to heaven, that fact doesn’t change. Christians pray for one another.

Then provide just one prayer out of the aprox. 200 the Holy Spirit inspired in Scripture of a soul praying to anyone in Heaven by the Lord, or of not having direct access to God thru Christ in His holy temple, and thus of any created being hearing virtually infinite prayers addressed to them in Heaven

Offering up prayers to God as a memorial (Rv 5:8; 8:3,5; cf. Lv. 2:2,15,16; 24:7; Num. 5:15) does not, nor will extrapolation from earthly relations will not do.

If you cannot then cease from trying to present PTDS as being supported from Scripture, and admit it has its basis in tradition, resting upon the presumed assured veracity of Rome with its presuppositions. Which you would be best not try to support.

[defconw]

LOL, OK whatever helps you through life is cool with me. I’ll keep my ways. Cheers!

[metmom]

The security of the believer is found in Scripture here in these passages some of which are Jesus own words.....

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Colossians 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3156607/posts?page=313#313

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

For which the Greek, from the Byzantine, is:

2Corinthians 1:21-22 ο δε βεβαιων ημας συν υμιν εις χριστον και χρισας ημας θεος ο και σφραγισαμενος ημας και δους τον αρραβωνα του πνευματος εν ταις καρδιαις ημων

The first word in bold above is “bebaion,” the idea of confirmation, frequently used in commercial settings to confirm a bargain. Which of course makes sense of the remaining terms used here, which are also elements of a secured contract.

The second word in bold above is “sphragisamenos,” being sealed is to be marked by the signature, signet ring, or other unique proof of identity, that we belong to God, and this sealing is done by God, who is the one taking action in this verse. We do not and cannot seal ourselves. We do not, by our own powers, have access to God’s “signet ring.”

The third bolded word above is “arrabona,” and indicates what we might loosely refer to as earnest money, but in Hebrew culture conveys more the idea of a pledge of covenant, a security given as a guarantee that the deal will go through, though we only receive part payment at the beginning. See ערב for the related Hebrew stem indicating “pledge.”

[defconw]

You all can take this one. I don’t even know what he’s taking about here. I’m out.

[daniel1212]

There is, but not in a book you recognize. Nor would you accept the exegesis. But it is in Maccabees.

Really? Then show us where 2 Mac. 12 teaches addressing prayer to angels or saints in Heaven, or for those who died due to a mortal sin. Or that this teaches purgatory.

[CynicalBear]

>>We Catholics believe what we believe<<

So also say the Mormons, Muslims etc. All trusting in mans writings rather than those inspired by the Holy Spirit. Believing things contrary to scripture. It’s “another gospel” and is to be considered accursed.

>>and no amount of caterwauling will change it.<<

Oh you can rest assured that those who God is calling to be His will change those beliefs and return to the teachings of Jesus and the apostles and renounce the paganism of the RCC.

[metmom]

Well, go ahead. LOL all you want at disobedience.

You’re right. You are free to choose to do it all you want.

You just can’t say you weren’t warned.

[metmom]

Oh you can rest assured that those who God is calling to be His will change those beliefs and return to the teachings of Jesus and the apostles and renounce the paganism of the RCC.

All the caterwauling will begin when they stand before God and try to explain to Him why they disobeyed Jesus clear teachings and LOL'd about it.

Something about weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Where's that verse again that says, *If you love me, you will keep my commandments*?

It's no skin off my back for anyone who chooses to disobey God.

[defconw]

Why don’t you just leave us alone? I don’t need your help, I don’t want your help and I am glad that I don’t go to Church with you or have to live with you.

[defconw]

Why don’t you just leave us alone? I don’t need your help, I don’t want your help and I am glad that I don’t go to Church with you or have to live with you.

[delchiante]

Quote-We say the Lords Prayer at every Mass and in every Rosary. Thanks!

Prove all things... 15 promises our lady gave for praying the rosary... from the how to pray the Rosary manual.

1. Whosoever shall faithfully Serve Me (Mary) by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces.

Testing the spirits with His Word we have:

Luke 4:8 And Yahshua answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and HIM ONLY SHALT THOU SERVE....

His Word proves that this Mary is a lying spirit with just her very first promise..

No lies ever lead to The Truth....a false witness will utter lies... no counterfeit is genuine..

But go down to Number 14 on that list, and it is a sticky wicket-
All who recite the Rosary are my Sons, and brothers of my Only Son Jesus Christ...

So if this lying spirit is pointing to Jesus in number 14 of those ‘promises’, is she pointing to a lie or truth? Is it a lie ? Half truth?

Or was she misqouted or maybe mistranslated in her promises, as can happen?

I doubt protestants even know much about those 15 promises....I never knew about them until a nice Catholic gave me a couple sets of beads.-.it is the most I have seen of direct quotes attributed to our lady...

You know, I think it is a fair question Catholics ask the daughters when they ask ‘why does this Mary point to Jesus?’

And that is not a comfortable question.. it goes to the heart of belief and faith..

And my answer has changed after testing and proving all things...and thankfully one need not be a Catholic or Protestant to believe in the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the finished work of His only Son, The Messiah of Israel, Yahshua( or Joshua in English)